For Comedian Kumail Nanjiani, Getting Personal Is Complicated

Transcript

TERRY GROSS, HOST:

This is FRESH AIR. The HBO comedy series "Silicon Valley," about a group of computer programmers trying to launch a company, ends its second season Sunday. Our guest is one of its stars, Kumail Nanjiani, who is also a comic. He was born in Karachi, Pakistan, and moved to the U.S. to attend college in Iowa. He stayed in the states, pursuing his career in standup comedy. His 2013 Comedy Central special "Beta Male" is available as an album and can be seen on the Comedy Central website. The second season of his Comedy Central series "The Meltdown With Jonah And Kumail" premieres on June 30.

Our producer Ann Marie Baldonado has been following Nanjiani's career and recorded an interview with him. They started with a clip from earlier in the current season of "Silicon Valley." The employees of the fledgling startup are fighting off competition and a lawsuit from a Google-like company while struggling to raise enough money to stay afloat. Here, Dinesh, played by Kumail Nanjiani, is talking to two other employees, played by Martin Starr and Zach Woods, about their financial problems.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "SILICON VALLEY")

KUMAIL NANJIANI: (As Dinesh Chugtai) I just donated $5,000 to my cousin Wajid's Kickstarter campaign. He's trying to get an app called Bro off the ground.

ZACH WOODS: (As Jared Dunn) Bro.

NANJIANI: (As Dinesh Chugtai) It's the messaging app that lets you send the word bro to everyone else who has the app.

MARTIN STARR: (As Bertram Gilfoyle) So it's exactly like the Yo app.

NANJIANI: (As Dinesh Chugtai) Yes, but less original.

STARR: (As Bertram Gilfoyle) Why don't you just cancel your credit card? That way Kickstarter can't collect your pledge.

NANJIANI: (As Dinesh Chugtai) Well, I would love to, but he looks up to me. I was always, like, the cool cousin of the family, you know what I mean? So I can't...

STARR: (As Bertram Gilfoyle) Wait, did you just say you were the cool cousin?

NANJIANI: (As Dinesh Chugtai) Yeah.

STARR: (As Bertram Gilfoyle) Please explain.

NANJIANI: (As Dinesh Chugtai) Well, when we were kids, I was the one getting good grades. I was the one who was planning for my future. I would bring gifts for my teachers 'cause they worked so hard, you know, cool stuff. He was always getting in trouble. He got caught smoking opium in the tool shed. He crashed my uncle's motorbike.

STARR: (As Bertram Gilfoyle) And you think you're the cool one.

NANJIANI: (As Dinesh Chugtai) Yeah, it's different in Pakistan.

STARR: (As Bertram Gilfoyle) I've never been, but I know it isn't.

ANN MARIE BALDONADO, BYLINE: That's a scene from this season of "Silicon Valley." Kumail Nanjiani, welcome to FRESH AIR.

NANJIANI: Thank you for having me.

BALDONADO: Now, I read that you majored in computer science and philosophy when you were in college. Did you ever think that programming or being in the tech world was something that was going to be in your future?

NANJIANI: Yeah, I thought that's what I was going to be doing. And now I'm sort of doing it in a very sideways, not real, fake, fictional way. But yeah, I mean, when I graduated college I sort of assumed my life was going to be working with computers. The problem was I wasn't very good at it and I wasn't interested in it at all. So I, you know, sort of hit 20 and now I have to decide what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. So it was - I was really panicking. And I was lucky that I found comedy when I did.

BALDONADO: You actually host a podcast called "The Indoor Kids" about video games. And on your Comedy Central special "Beta Male" you talk about video games and, in particular, you talk about the game "Call Of Duty," which is, you know, one of those very popular military shooting games. And you said, you know, you're a little bit uncomfortable with those kind of games but you do find them to be fun. And in a recent version of the game, one of the areas, or one of the boards, is called Karachi, the city you grew up in. This also made you uncomfortable, but you still wanted to play it. And here you are talking a little bit about the game.

(SOUNDBITE OF COMEDY SPECIAL, "BETA MALE")

NANJIANI: OK, so the language we speak in Pakistan is Urdu. That's the name of the language we speak, Urdu. But all the street signs in Karachi in "Call Of Duty" are in Arabic. Yeah, it's a completely different language.

(LAUGHTER)

NANJIANI: And I know it does not seem like a big deal, but this game took three years to make. If you look at it, the graphics are perfect. You can see individual hair on people's heads. When they run, they sweat. When they run, their shoelaces bounce. All they had to do was Google Pakistan language.

(LAUGHTER)

NANJIANI: They were literally like, what language do they speak in Pakistan? I don't care.

(LAUGHTER)

NANJIANI: I can't get his sideburns even.

(LAUGHTER)

NANJIANI: But it was on sale and I bought it. It's so good - totally worth selling out my people for.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDONADO: That's a scene from the Comedy Central special "Beta Male." Can you talk a little bit more about that conflict? That's such a great clip because, you know, you're talking about a part of popular culture that's kind of sketch in terms of, you know, ethnicity and race. But it's still something that you totally enjoy.

NANJIANI: Yeah, it's sort of about how, you know, people see that part of the world as beginning this one vague, you know, brown patch. People don't realize - I mean, you know, people think Pakistan is Middle East. Pakistan is not Middle East. We don't speak Arabic over there. And I think here it kind of doesn't - the way it's portrayed, it's all portrayed as one mass. I mean, honestly I got really angry about that. And I did that and then that clip got pretty popular and I know people at that company saw it. And the new game - in Karachi, the signs are still in Arabic. So it has not been fixed yet. And it's the easiest thing in the world to fix. But I think it's like, you know, it doesn't really matter because that - nobody cares. And I think I like that clip 'cause it really gets at sort of the tension between representing, you know, a part of the world that maybe needs representation - tension between that and just being a person and doing what I want to do and, you know, whether I have responsibility to humanizing that part of the world or not.

BALDONADO: So you grew up in Karachi, Pakistan. One of the things that you talk about in your Comedy Central special "Beta Male" is how you would sometimes splice - after you discovered porn, you would sometimes record porn onto the middle of popular movies. You know, like splice it in the middle of "Jurassic Park," say. So it's almost like there was a bootleg within a bootleg within a bootleg. It was like a triple smuggle of kind of Western popular culture in there.

NANJIANI: Yeah, yeah, I would do that because, obviously, you know, I couldn't have my parents find out that I had that. But there was this underground sort of network among my friends of - like, we had one kid who, I don't know how, but he just knew how to get these movies. And so he would then lend them to us. Whenever we went to his house, he would have, like, stacks of them, and so we all befriended him. And then I would hook up my two VCRs when my parents were out of the house and movies that I owned - I actually did it to "Jurassic Park" and I did it to "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" as well. And sort of, like, 40 minutes into the movie I would record (laughter) I would record some of the porn. And then I would end with the movie again, and that way I wouldn't have to hide these videos from my parents. God, I hope my dad never watched "Roger Rabbit" when I wasn't around.

BALDONADO: Now, you've said that at the beginning you didn't really want to talk about being Pakistani in your comedy. I think you said you didn't want to be, like, the funny foreign guy. What made you change your mind about that? It seems like in 2009, for example, you had a one-man show called "Unpronounceable." And you did sort of talk about your personal background. What - why did you change your mind to decide you wanted to talk about it in your comedy?

NANJIANI: Well, I realized it was a big part of who I was that I wasn't talking about. I found that a lot of the comedy I'd been doing wasn't very personal. It was more observational. I made a very specific decision to write one show that was going to be very, very personal, that was going to be very different from anything I'd done, that was going to be one story. And I gave myself a few months to write it, and it was really hard, but it was also really, really gratifying. And it actually helped me come to terms with a lot of stuff that had been plaguing me and stuff that had been confusing to me. And it allowed me to articulate a lot of my feelings about, you know, a big part of my life and about where I'm from and stuff.

BALDONADO: Can you discuss some of the things that you addressed in that one-man show?

NANJIANI: I have to be somewhat vague because for various reasons I had to stop performing that show. So I will say, basically, it was about me growing up in Pakistan in a very religious Shiite family. Growing up with that and then coming to America and sort of the culture shock of coming to America and how that made me rethink or re-examine a lot of the stuff that I'd believed. And it's sort of my relationship to where I'm from and how it was affected after I moved to America.

GROSS: We're listening to the interview that FRESH AIR producer Ann Marie Baldonado recorded with comic Kumail Nanjiani, one of the stars of the HBO comedy series "Silicon Valley." We'll hear more after a break. This is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to the interview that our producer Ann Marie Baldonado recorded with comic Kumail Nanjiani, one of the stars of the HBO comedy series "Silicon Valley." He grew up in Pakistan, came to the U.S. to attend college and stayed.

BALDONADO: In your comedy you talk about things like discovering your sexuality, discovering porn and, you know, even in parts of "Silicon Valley" there's a lot of blue material. Was that ever a struggle for you, talking about taboo subjects like sexuality or religion, doing it publicly because you did grow up in a very religious environment when you were a kid?

NANJIANI: Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I sort of came to terms with was I believed talking about sexuality is very, very important. And I'm from a part of the world where sexuality is very, very repressed. So that was something I made a conscious decision to talk about more because when I was a little kid, sexuality was demonized and being attracted to someone was a sin. I remember - I talk about this in "Beta Male," and it's actually a story that's from "Unpronounceable" about the first time I saw Cindy Crawford in a Diet Coke commercial and how devastating it was that I was attracted to her. And so this huge experience of being human was something that was demonized. It's a very, very harmful thing. I mean, you've seen in countries where sexuality's repressed that it can be a very, very negative thing. So I made a decision to talk about it more. In the beginning it was uncomfortable for me, but I felt like that suddenly I realized it was OK to talk about. So it was - (laughter) it was kind of thrilling and exciting to discuss it.

BALDONADO: How did your family react to the material that you were doing on stage? Or do they see it?

NANJIANI: Well, we haven't quite talked about it yet (laughter). I knew that there was some stuff, specifically in "Unpronounceable," that they were going to have a reaction to. And when it first came out, I did the show in Chicago and I got reviewed. And, you know, I was - I was happy to see that the reviews were very positive. My parents read some of the reviews and they saw it. They were very upset and they thought that it was going to be this really angry piece where I shun where I'm from and religion and stuff. So I sent them a copy of it and they realized that it's not an angry piece, that a lot of work and thought and, hopefully, craft went into it. So they liked it, but they did ask me to stop performing it. And that is why I stopped performing that show. And I still feel conflicted about it because I really am proud of that show. And I do feel like that show has stuff to say that I think people could get something out of. I don't want to say it's important, but I feel like you don't hear - you don't hear the experience of Muslims. I mean, one of the reasons - I think one of the problems with the way that Islam is portrayed in the world is that people don't really have the image of a lax Muslim. I feel like when people think of Islam they see certain images in their head. They see fanaticism. Unfortunately, that has become the face of Islam. That has become the face of the Muslim. You know, you can think of a non-religious Jewish person. You can think of a lapsed Christian person. But there's really no image of a not-strict Muslim person. But unfortunately, me doing that show, there's actual danger in doing it. I still have family back in Pakistan. I have a very specific last name. I feel like I'm safe over here, but I'm not sure that people back in Pakistan are safe if I talk about this stuff. It's - as you could tell, I have a very conflicted relationship with where I'm from and my identity and all that stuff. And it's still a struggle to negotiate some of it.

BALDONADO: I want to play another clip from your special "Beta Male." And this is about people calling stuff out to you while you're on the street. This is a story from a time when you were visiting Orange County and you're just in California and just walking around, but - and someone calls something out to you. Let's take a listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF COMEDY SPECIAL, "BETA MALE")

NANJIANI: I get there. I get out of my car. Ten seconds after I get out of my car - 10 seconds after I get out of my car - this car pulls up. This guy pokes his head out the window, yells at me. He's like, hey, Kumar, where's Harold?

(LAUGHTER)

NANJIANI: And then drives off. Ten f****** seconds, like he'd been waiting in the bushes for weeks. Like, I can't wait for a brown to come to town.

(LAUGHTER)

NANJIANI: I will belittle him with a movie reference. And I got so angry. I thought about it for days. And I was trying to think why do I get angry when someone's racist to me? And I think it's 'cause when somebody's racist to you there are no comebacks. There is nothing I can say to get back at this guy 'cause what am I going to be like? I'm not going to be racist 'cause I'm not racist. And almost everyone who's racist to me is white. And it's very difficult to be racist to white people. Like, what am I going to be like? Oh, I'm Kumar. Well. you're the main character in most movies that come out.

(LAUGHTER)

NANJIANI: Slam.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDONADO: So that's a clip from the Comedy Central special "Beta Male." I just want to share a story. I was listening to "Beta Male" while I was walking home one night. So I was listening to your album and I just heard that part and I was laughing at it. And then - I'm Asian-American and someone at that exact moment yelled out konnichiwa to me. And I thought it was just fitting that that - this is what I was just listening to.

NANJIANI: Oh, my God.

BALDONADO: And I was like - and the thing is when something like that happens what do I - it really is what do you say? What are you going to say? Really or I'm not Japanese - or like - what are you going to say?

NANJIANI: There's nothing.

BALDONADO: So I just thought it was very funny. But at least you get to sort of say...

NANJIANI: Yeah, when someone's racist to you, they win. They've won. There's nothing to be said. You've been compressed into one word. There's nothing to do.

BALDONADO: So I think you're more well-known now than you were when this album came out. Are people calling your name - calling out your name on the street yet?

NANJIANI: (Laughter) Nope, not at least to be racist to me. I - you know, it's also - it's interesting. Just in the few years since then, the representation of, like, brown people on TV has changed quite a bit. And I think that goes a long way because, you know, if there's - the only brown person you know is Kumar from "Harold & Kumar" then that's easy. But if we're represented better then you can't really do that. And I think it's happening a little bit. I actually saw Kal Penn tweeted a few days ago. He said that someone congratulated him on "Silicon Valley." And I was like OK, good. Now you know how it's - how it's been for me for the last 10 years.

BALDONADO: Well, Kumail Nanjiani, thanks for joining us at FRESH AIR.

NANJIANI: Thank you for having me.

GROSS: Kumail Nanjiani spoke with FRESH AIR producer Ann Marie Baldonado. His HBO series "Silicon Valley" has its season finale this Sunday. The new season of his Comedy Central show, "The Meltdown With Jonah And Kumail," premieres later this month.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

GROSS: Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, we talk politics. Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker is expected to announce his presidential run next month and to become a top-tier candidate in the Republican primary. My guest will be New York Times political correspondent Patrick Healy who writes (reading) more than any of his presidential rivals, Walker is a product of a loose network of conservative donors, think tanks and talk radio show hosts. I hope you'll join us. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.