Mindy Kaling On Refusing To Be An Outsider And Sexism On Set

Transcript

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Mindy Kaling doesn't want to be exceptional, but she is. Not that the actress and comedy writer doesn't want to be good at her job - and she is, as one of only a handful of women to create, run and star in her own network TV show. It's called "The Mindy Project" with a main character Kaling describes as...

MINDY KALING: Delusionally confident, unapologetically selfish, a sunny personality, very cheerful, very warm with occasional bouts of feeling guilt or conscience that kind of poke through a couple times an episode.

MARTIN: I spoke with Kaling for our "Changing Lives of Women" series and she explained that while she's busy being exceptional at her job, she's often forced to feel exceptional for how she looks.

KALING: I often forget that being Indian, an Indian-American woman who is not sort of pencil-thin, that that is very new to broadcast television, you know? I forget about it because I live in my skin. I don't feel all that different, but I do think that there was - the amount that was written about those types of things when the show broadcast, that it definitely was something that other people were noticing more than me. And people, you know, had trouble with the character. She's not immediately likable. She does and says a lot of things that you don't see in - forget female characters - any characters. Like, she says things like, I'm going to hell because I don't really care about the environment and I love to gossip. She thinks Rick Santorum is handsome. Like, she has lots of all over the map opinions and feelings that the writers dream up, but it makes her really original and fun.

MARTIN: What kind of feedback do your fans give you about her?

KALING: I don't think anyone wants to grow up to be Mindy Lahiri - but that's OK. Like, you should want to maybe - you know, my dream of course as a writer and a person who's an entertainer, it's like - I'm like, grow up to be Mindy Kaling, don't grow up to be Mindy Lahiri.

MARTIN: So if Mindy Lahiri, your character, doesn't have to be the role model, Mindy Kaling does - you still have to be a role model - does that sit well with you? Or does that come with a lot of pressure?

KALING: I like it. I embrace it. I think I've always wanted to be a role model and I think it's good to - everyone should try to live their life like they think they'd like to be a role model. I think it's like, the thing keeping me out of jail. It's good for me mentally, selfishly. And it's also nice to try do that for - especially younger women. I mean, it's scary as hell. Like, I worry about it but I think it's a good thing to try to do. Of course, everyone wants to be mythologized in a great way. I'd rather be like, Odysseus than someone who is handed everything. Besides my parents - and a handful of people - I don't know anyone that worked harder. Like, I really do - I work so hard and so many hours. And I've done that for years, and years, and years.

You know, I've read a little bit about what it's like to be a female boss in my book and the things I've noticed about that. But by and large, it's just a tough job, in general.

MARTIN: Challenging just because it's a tough world and it's a tough career path you've chosen? Or challenging because you're a woman? Does that have anything to do with it?

KALING: You know, years from now when I have time to sit and reflect on the different situations that I face every day, I'll be able to speak more succinctly about the challenges as a woman. Yeah, there's obviously instances where I perceive sexism in my job.

MARTIN: Can you point to an example?

KALING: Yeah. I think that the sort of sexism that I see has been one that's a little bit like a gentler form of sexism, but still a little bit debilitating, which is not - as a producer and a writer, whether it was at the office or here, if I make a decision it'll still seem like it's up for debate. And I notice that a little bit at the office. With like, an actor - if I decided there'd be a certain way in the script, it would still seem open-ended where as I would not - if I was a man, I would not have seen that. Here, I feel that sort of like, less and less as I've sort of matured into the role more. But one thing I sort of - because of that, have felt that when I made a decision, I sort of would have to leave the room so that it was final and there was like, no discussion that would come after that.

MARTIN: You've been asked a lot about what it's like to be a pioneer, for lack of a better word, to be a woman who's been the first at something. Is it still a lonely club?

KALING: I know why people are interested and I know why people want me to speak about it, but I sort of refuse to be an outsider - even though I know that I very much look like one to a lot of people - and I refuse to view myself in such terms.

MARTIN: For this series we've been talking to a variety of different women about being the first at something and the responsibilities and pressures that can come with it. And one of those conversations I had with the number two in the U.S. Navy, the first female four-star admiral. And she told me something interesting - she said that she was annoyed with all this pressure and responsibility and she just wanted to stop talking about it - I don't want to talk about being a woman in the Navy, I don't want to talk about being a pioneer, or breaking glass ceilings or any other metaphor.

And she was complaining to her mom and her mom just told her to suck it up, that this is where she was in history and she had to make a decision that if she was going to continue in the Navy, it was going to be inevitable that she would break glass ceilings and she kind of had a make peace with it.

Do you think - do you see a similarity in that?

KALING: I definitely can understand that frustration, I think. I think I get very impatient because I think a lot of times - you know, I was on Twitter recently and a critic who's been very critical of me and of the show was talking about a roundtable that three South Asian women had done, where they kind of criticized and dissected the show and said, why doesn't Mindy respond to this? And my feeling about it, about that, is no one is asking - so I'm an actor and a writer and a show-runner and I edit my show and I have a job that three people usually have. And I have it in one person. And the idea that the critic thought that I had this excess of time for which I could go to, like, panels or write essays, was just so laughable to me. And I think as women, you know, if you are considered a pioneer in these things, you can get really distracted by these other things. You know, people's demands of you reflecting on your otherness. And for this white critic to say, I don't understand why she doesn't do that? And you're like, it's because I'm running a show on like a major network and I want the show to continue. And to sort of guilt me - because I'm an A student, you know? I'm addicted to feedback and I want to please people, that's sort of how I've gotten to where I am. And I think that it's insidious to be spending more of your time reflecting and talking about panels and talking more and more in smart ways about your otherness, rather than doing the hard work of your job.

MARTIN: Mindy Kaling, creator and star of "The Mindy Project" on Fox. Mindy, thanks so much for talking with us.

KALING: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

MARTIN: This is NPR News. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.