There is something unique about the protagonist of Sarai Walker's new novel: She's fat, a word many try to avoid using to describe a person. But not Walker.
Alicia "Plum" Kettle works as the ghost-writing voice of Kitty, the notably glamorous and slender editor of Daisy Chain, a teen magazine. She spends many nights at Waist Watchers meetings, and works to save up for weight loss surgery. But then Plum is drawn into a kind of guerilla underground movement of women who set out to upend what they see as the true cost to women of what amounts to a beauty-industrial complex.
Walker's novel, Dietland, has been called part Fight Club, part Bridget Jones's Diary. She tells NPR's Scott Simon about how Plum changes through the novel and her own efforts to reclaim the word "fat."
Interview Highlights
On why she doesn't shy away from using the word "fat"
In the fat activist community we're trying to reclaim the word "fat." So I know to most people it's an insult and it is often used that way, but in these communities it's really reclaimed as either a neutral or a positive descriptor — so just like saying someone's tall or short. ... I know it's hard, but I think that the only way it gets easier is if people like me and other fat activists use it proudly.
On how the film Fight Club inspired her book
It just provoked a really strong response in me. I responded to its anger, its defiance, its punk spirit. And I love the way it dealt with political issues, particularly gender. I mean of course it's about men, but it's still about gender. And after I saw that film I said to myself: I have to write something like that for women.
On the guerilla underground community where Plum ends up
Calliope House — I refer to it as a feminist collective, and it's not just fat people. So it's kind of an assortment of women who for one reason or another don't really fit into mainstream society. And there can be different reasons for that, either because they're fat, there's one woman that has a burned, scarred face. So it's kind of in a way — and I mean this in an endearing way — it's sort of a collection of freaks, if you will. I really like that word and I like writing about people who don't fit into the mainstream. So it's a place where you can go and be yourself.
On Plum learning to see herself differently
A lot of theorists have written about this idea of the gaze and sort of internalizing a gaze. So in the case of women, the way we present ourselves is always to this sort of invisible male eye. It just becomes something that's part of how you function in life. And I think in Dietland part of what Plum does is try and — or the other women try and help her — step out of that, which really shakes her life to its foundation, in a way. To say: I'm not going to see myself as the sexual object, I'm going to try and see myself as I am. ...
I think young girls are taught from a very young age — there's a lot of emphasis placed on "You look pretty," "You look cute." ... That's a tremendous amount of your value and your worth as a person, is how you look. And so I think when you get to be the age of the women that I'm writing about in the novel — so, you know, Plum is in her late 20s — it very much is about sexual attractiveness I think. I mean, of course not for everybody. But I think if we just look at our culture — we look at advertisements, we look at magazines, TV shows, movies — I mean that's really what's in our face all the time.
On how Plum changes by the end of the novel
Plum, at the beginning of the novel, has internalized all this fat hatred. You know, society hates fat people and she's been stigmatized her whole life, so of course she hates herself and she wants to lose weight, which is of course understandable. But then when she meets the women of Calliope House, she begins to think about her relationship with her fat body in a different way. She begins to think, you know, maybe there's nothing wrong with my body; maybe it's the way that other people are treating me. And so I think that she comes to see it as a politicized issue, because it is. I mean, a fat body is always a politicized body.
On why fat bodies are politicized bodies
I live in a fat body myself and you know ... people assume all sorts of things about me. People look at you and think: Oh, well, she must eat all day or never exercise; she must have an eating disorder. All of these things that are projected onto fat people all day long. So you can never just kind of go about your day as a regular person. So I don't mean political in terms of a political party; I mean structures of power — certain people having power and privilege. And so Plum comes to realize that her fat body, the mistreatment she receives because of it, is a political issue.
On campaigns to end obesity and the message that it's a national disease
I think it's great to focus on healthy eating and exercise, but to say, as people in the health at every size movement do, you can be healthy at any size. You know, exercise, eat healthy; whatever size you are, that's what you are. Because body shaming just doesn't work. And those kind of anti-obesity programs I think are really harming children because it's stigmatizing them. And I just think that, you know, experiencing more stigma and shame is certainly not going to help anyone be healthier.
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Transcript
SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
There's something unique about the protagonist of Sarai Walker's new novel. She is fat - a word I try to avoid using to describe a person. Sarai Walker's main character, Alicia Plum Kettle, spends much of her work day as the ghost writing voice of Kitty, the notably glamorous and slender editor of Daisy Chain, a teen magazine. She spends many nights at Waist Watchers meetings and works to save up for weight loss surgery. But then Plum Kettle is drawn into a kind of guerrilla underground movement of women who set out to upend what they see as the true cost to women of what amounts to a beauty industrial complex. Her new novel, "Dietland," has been called part "Fight Club" part "Bridget Jones's Diary." Sarai Walker, who has written for Seventeen and Mademoiselle and was an editor for "Our Bodies, Ourselves," joins us now from our studios in New York.
Thanks so much for being with us.
SARAI WALKER: Thank you so much for inviting me. It's an honor to be here.
SIMON: Well, it's our honor. I shy away from saying fat. You don't. Why?
WALKER: No. In the fat activist community, we're trying to reclaim the word fat. So I know to most people it's an insult - and it is often used that way - but in these communities, it's really reclaimed as either a neutral or a positive descriptor, so just like saying someone's tall or short. And, you know, other words to describe the fat body, such as overweight and obese, there are a lot of stigmatizing aspects to those words. So fat is really just the best word, but I know it's hard. But I think that the only way it gets easier is if people like me and other fat activists use it proudly.
SIMON: In terms of literary inspiration for "Dietland," you cite the film "Fight Club."
WALKER: Yes. It just provoked a really strong response in me. I responded to its anger, its defiance, its punk spirit. And I loved the way it dealt with political issues. And after I saw that film, I said to myself, I have to write something like that for women.
SIMON: So is Calliope House the community, if you please, where Plum Kettle winds up - Calliope House is a kind of fat club?
WALKER: Yeah, well, Calliope House - I refer to it as a feminist collective. And it's not just fat people, so it's kind of an assortment of women who for one reason or another don't really fit into mainstream society. And there can be different reasons for that - because they're fat, there's one woman that has a burned, scarred face. So it's kind of, in a way - and I mean this in an endearing way - it's sort of a collection of freaks, if you will. I really like that word. And I like writing about people who don't fit into the mainstream. So it's a place where you can go and be yourself.
SIMON: You suggest that a lot of women wind-up seeing themselves through the eyes of men.
WALKER: Right. The way we present ourselves is always to the sort of invisible male eye. It just becomes something that's part of how you function in life. And I think in "Dietland," part of what Plum does is step out of that, which really shakes her life to its foundation, to just say I'm not going to see myself as this sexual object. I'm going to try and see myself as I am.
SIMON: Does it have to be as a sexual object? Can't it just be a sense of - well, a sense of personal presentation?
WALKER: I mean, of course everyone - male or female - most people want to look good. You know, we bathe, we cut our hair, we cut our fingernails. You know, we take care of ourselves.
SIMON: For self-respect as much as anything else.
WALKER: Right. So I'm not - I'm kind of not talking about this, the basic thing that we all do. I think young girls are taught from a very young age that that's a tremendous amount of your value and your worth as a person, is how you look. And so I think when you get to be the age of the women that I'm writing about in the novel - so you know, Plum's in her late 20s - it very much is about sexual attractiveness, I think.
SIMON: In your mind, as the novel progresses, how does Plum?
WALKER: So Plum, at the beginning of the novel, you know, has internalized all of this fat hatred. You know, society hates fat peoples and she's been stigmatized her whole life, so of course she hates herself and she wants to lose weight. But then when she meets the women of Calliope House, she begins to think, you know, maybe there's nothing wrong with my body, maybe it's the way that other people are treating me. And so I think that she comes to see it as a politicized issue because it is. I mean, a fat body is always a politicized body.
SIMON: How is a fat body always a politicized body?
WALKER: Well, I think it - I mean, I live in a fat body myself and, you know, I go throughout my day and people assume all sorts of things about me. People look at you and think, oh, well, she must eat all day or never exercise. She must have an eating disorder. So you can never just kind of go about your day as a regular person. So I don't mean political in terms of a political party. I mean structures of power, of certain people having power and privilege. And so Plum comes to realize that her fat body - the mistreatment she receives because of it is a political issue.
SIMON: You know, Ms. Walker, I think we have to raise this question - and I'll conveniently cite on opposite sides politically - Michelle Obama and Mike Huckabee, who think that obesity, being fat, is a real national disease that is harming people, children in particular, and we have to do something to stop it.
WALKER: Right. I mean, I think that that's this obesity epidemic rhetoric that's out there. You know, I think it's great to focus on healthy eating and exercise, but to say you can be healthy at any size. You know, exercise, eat healthy - whatever size you are, that's what you are because body shaming just doesn't work. And those kind of anti-obesity programs I think are really harming children because it's stigmatizing them. And I just think that, you know, having - experiencing more stigma and shame is certainly not going to help anyone be healthier.
SIMON: I was very touched by your dedication - to my parents, for believing in me and to my foremothers, who didn't always have a voice.
WALKER: Right. I wanted to thank my foremothers because I look back at, you know, the women in my family and I see that, you know, so many of them didn't have the opportunities that I have. You know, my grandmother told me once, I wish that I had been born when you were born and that I could do what you did. And I just wanted to acknowledge, in some way to thank them, but also to acknowledge how privileged I am compared to the lives that they lead.
SIMON: Sarai Walker, her new novel, "Dietland."
Thanks so much for being with us.
WALKER: Thank you so much for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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