Caught In The Act: Joke-Stealing In The Age Of Twitter
Conan O'Brien got some bad news this past week: The late-night host is getting sued for allegedly stealing jokes. A freelance comedy writer claims that O'Brien lifted four jokes from the writer's personal blog and Twitter.
The dust-up arose after an odd story surfaced about a flight that had just two passengers on board. Naturally, the two men found some humor in it.
The plaintiff in the case, Robert Alexander Kaseberg, says he posted this joke online on Jan. 14: "A Delta flight from Cleveland to New York took off with only two passengers. And they wrestled for control of the armrest the entire flight." He alleges that the same joke appeared in O'Brien's monologue that night.
O'Brien's production company says there's no merit to the suit.
But the whole skirmish raises an interesting question: What are the intellectual property rights of a good joke? To get some answers, NPR's Rachel Martin turned to Larry Getlen, a comedy writer and journalist based in New York.
Interview Highlights
On whether the case sounds like comedy theft
To me, it does not. First of all, let's talk about the joke world in late-night. You've got, let's say, nine shows that are dealing with topical jokes on an either daily or weekly basis and writing every day. So on any given day, you may have the best joke writers in television writing a thousand jokes about the same small pool of news stories.
So I think that one of the bottom lines to realize right out of the gate is that if you are a topical comedian and you write a joke about a news story that had gotten some attention in the past 24 to 36 hours, there is a very good chance that some staffer at one of these shows wrote a similar joke.
Second of all, all these comedy writers come from very similar comedic origins. You know, the younger ones probably grew up with Jon Stewart, the older ones idolized George Carlin. So you've got joke writers who probably write jokes in a similar way coming from a similar mindset. ...
Joke theft totally happens. The point that I would like to make is that when people see two people tweet out or say the same joke, there should not be an automatic assumption that it's theft, because odds are it's usually not.
On a few examples of joke theft
Robin Williams stole many jokes. But that was pre-Twitter. I remember a couple of years ago, there was some unknown comic out in the Midwest [who] took Patton Oswalt's routine and just did it verbatim on stage — like at a gig he was being paid for. And then video of it wound up on YouTube and, you know, I forget the exact details of it, but there was an outcry.
On how people can think they'd get away with theft in the age of social media
I would guess that it probably happens less now because of that. Because it's easy to see that the risks you're taking are bigger now. You could get away with this 20 years ago. Joke writing was not what people cared about; it was the performance. So you had a series of hacky jokes that comics on the circuit would all tell and would tell those jokes for 15 years and make a career of them.
On whether it's more difficult to be a comedian in 2015 than it once was
I don't know if that's really the case, because it's easier in a lot of ways, too. Because you have a lot more different avenues to get your talent out there. You've got people doing YouTube videos, people on Twitter, and they never really have to deal with entertaining the masses.
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Transcript
RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Conan O'Brien got some bad news this past week. The talk show host is being sued for allegedly stealing jokes. A freelance comedy writer claims that O'Brien lifted four jokes from his personal blog and Twitter. Conan O'Brien's production company says there's no merit to the suit. But the whole thing raises questions about the intellectual property rights of a good joke. We've called up Larry Getlen. He's a comedy writer and journalist based in New York. He joins us now from our studios there. Welcome to the show, Larry.
LARRY GETLEN: Thank you.
MARTIN: OK, as a starting point, let's talk about the jokes named in this particular suit. Apparently, Conan and the man who is suing him, whose name is Robert Alexander Kaseberg - both of these guys apparently riffed on a news story about a Delta flight from Cleveland to New York with just two passengers on board. Kaseberg claims that he posted his joke, which goes as follows. A Delta flight from Cleveland to New York took off with only two passengers, and they wrestled for control of the armrest the entire flight. He posted this January 14. Then he alleges that the joke appeared in Conan's monologue the next night. So, as I have just laid this out to you, Larry, does that sound like comedy theft?
GETLEN: To me, it does not. First of all, let's talk about the joke world in late night. You've got, let's say, nine shows that are dealing with topical jokes on an either daily or weekly basis and writing every day. So on any given day, you may have the best joke writers in television writing a thousand jokes about the same small pool of news stories. So I think one of the bottom lines to realize right out of the gate is that if you are a topical comedian and you write a joke about a news story that had gotten some attention in the past 24 to 36 hours, there is a very good chance that some staffer at one of these shows wrote a similar joke. Second of all, all these comedy writers come from very similar comedic origins. You know, the younger ones probably grew up with Jon Stewart. The older one idolized George Carlin. So you've got joke writers who probably write jokes in a similar way, coming from a similar mindset.
MARTIN: But does that mean that it never happens? I mean, aren't there concrete examples of joke theft?
GETLEN: Joke theft totally happens. The point that I would like to make is that when people see two people tweet out or say the same joke, there should not be an automatic assumption that it's theft because odds are, it's usually not.
MARTIN: I mean, didn't this happen? Robin Williams stole a joke.
GETLEN: Well, Robin Williams stole many jokes. But that was pre-Twitter. I remember a couple years ago, there was some unknown comic out in the Midwest, took Patton Oswalt's routine and just did it verbatim onstage, like, at a gig he was being paid for. And then video of it wound up on YouTube. And, you know, I forget the exact details, but there was...
MARTIN: But that's the thing. How does a person like that think they're not going to get caught in the age of social media, where everyone's recording everything and posting it?
GETLEN: Well, I don't know. And I would guess that it probably happens less now because of that - because it's easy to see that the risks you're taking are bigger now. You could get away with this 20 years ago. Joke writing was not what people cared about. It was the performance. So you had a series of hacky jokes that comics all along the circuit would all tell. And they would tell those same jokes for 15 years and make a career of them.
MARTIN: Does that mean it's harder to be a comedian in 2015?
GETLEN: I don't know if that's really the case 'cause it's easier in a lot of ways too because you have a lot more different avenues to get your talent out there. You've got people doing YouTube videos. You've got people on Twitter. And they never really have to deal with entertaining the masses.
MARTIN: Larry Getlen is a comedy writer and journalist. He's also the author of the book, "Conversations With Carlin." He talked to us from our studios in New York. Thanks so much, Larry.
GETLEN: My pleasure, thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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