Judging Effectivenes Of Airstrikes Against ISIS Remains A Challenge

Transcript

MELISSA BLOCK, HOST:

Meanwhile at the Pentagon today, President Obama discussed the battle against ISIS with top commanders. The U.S. air campaign in Iraq and Syria has been underway for several weeks, yet little is clear about what effect it's having. NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman is here to fill us in on what is known. And Tom, first, what's the extent of the strikes so far?

TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Well, Melissa, we're approaching 400 airstrikes so far in Iraq and Syria. The vast majority - roughly three quarters of all the airstrikes since they started in the summer have been in Iraq. And if you look at Iraq, most of the airstrikes have been to protect the Mosul dam in northern Iraq. It's what's called critical infrastructure because is supplies both water and power. And there've also been a lot of airstrikes around the northern city or Erbil. We have U.S. soldiers and diplomats working - hundreds of them, and the U.S. wanted to prevent that city from being overrun by Islamic State fighters.

And then still another location for the airstrikes in Iraq was Sinjar Mountain, of course. That's where there was a potential humanitarian catastrophe in the summer with the Yazidi religious sect.

BLOCK: OK, so those targets that you're talking about are all inside Iraq. What about in Syria?

BOWMAN: Well, in Syria roughly - just over 100 airstrikes so far - a lot of them around an area north-central Syria, the city of Raqqah, which is kind of the de facto headquarters for the Islamic State. The goal here in Syria is to cut off supplies - the supply line from Syria into Iraq. That's where we've heard a lot of talk about them hitting makeshift oil refineries, supply depots, military equipment trucks, headquarters - again, trying to stem the movement of those supplies and even fighters into Iraq.

BLOCK: What about the bomb damage assessment in Syria, Tom? We haven't heard a whole lot about that. What have you heard?

BOWMAN: Well, you're not hearing too much. And now remember, the first night of the bombing they talked about targeting this group most people never heard of - the Khorasan group, a terrorist group officials say were planning to attack either the U.S. or Europe. We kept seeing pictures of damaged buildings at the Pentagon. We were told they were finance centers, command centers, key people were being targeted.

But the problem is there aren't good sources on the ground to verify some of this stuff and talk about it like reporters or independent observers - even communications with fighters are limited. So we don't really have a good sense of the effects of the airstrikes. But what we do know, however, is that ISIS is still on the move in places in Iraq just west of Baghdad, and in Syria, places like Kobani along the border with Syria and Turkey.

BLOCK: Right, and Thomas, as we mentioned earlier, ISIS appears to be close to capturing Kobani inside Syria, and there have been complaints that the U.S. has not been doing enough to try to protect that town - keep the ISIS forces at bay. What you learning about that?

BOWMAN: You're right. There were no airstrikes for a time. That's changed. Just in the last two days, the U.S. and coalition have launched about a dozen airstrikes to push back Islamic State fighters, but it's not clear why there was a delay. The U.S. was kind of just holding back. The town is inside of the Turkish border, so there's a sense that the U.S. had hoped the Turks would go in militarily and push back Islamic forces. That did not happen. So now the U.S. is launching the strikes, but there's still fighting in and around the town of Kobani. Now, the Pentagon - and we've heard Secretary of State John Kerry downplay the significance of this now. They say listen, it's not a strategic location - not a big city like Mosul in Iraq.

BLOCK: Tom, as you talk to military planners - analysts, what do they say would change the dynamic in Iraq and Syria? Would airstrikes alone be enough to make a difference?

BOWMAN: No. Nobody thinks that. What you need is a competent ground force both in Syria and in Iraq. The problem is in Syria, you really don't have any ground forces to speak of. Small Kurdish forces in Syria are fighting. And in Iraq, we're told that half of the Iraqi Army units just aren't ready to fight. So it's going to be a long time before you can get an adequate ground force in both Syria and Iraq.

BLOCK: OK, NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman. Tom, thanks.

BOWMAN: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.