Michael Keaton: As An Actor, You Must Lock In And Let Go

Transcript

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Soon after he sat down for an interview this week, Michael Keaton mentioned his career. Then he rephrased.

MICHAEL KEATON: My career or what I - let's put it this way - what I do for a living.

INSKEEP: Just how he describes his acting means a lot to Keaton as we're going to hear. And the life of an actor is at the heart of Keaton's new film. In "Birdman," he plays an aging movie star who once played a superhero, a role he can't quite get over.

KEATON: He took the pill, and he bought the whole thing. You know, people will love me. I'll be famous. I'll be rich. I'll have a few big houses. I'll have women. I'm important. What I say is important. I'm cool-looking. I'm deep. I'm all of these things 'cause people start to tell you that, or you start to tell yourself that, or you read something about yourself and actually believe it.

INSKEEP: Years after playing that big role, he's grasping for a comeback. He's writing, directing and starring in a Broadway play. Though a voice in his head keeps telling him he's too good for that.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BIRDMAN")

KEATON: (As Birdman) How did we end up here?

(Speaking as Riggan Thomson) We had it all.

(Speaking as Birdman) You were a movie star, remember?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character) Who is this guy?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS #1: (As character) He used to be Birdman.

INSKEEP: Now, in real life, Michael Keaton himself played a comic superhero - not Birdman, but Batman. Our talk was a chance to talk about Keaton's acting life including his reluctance to call his job a career.

Very early in our conversation, you started to say, my career and then rephrased and said, what I do for a living.

KEATON: Yeah...

INSKEEP: What's the difference?

KEATON: ...Very sharp, Steve - very, very sharp. Boy, oh, boy - this guy doesn't miss a trick (laughter).

INSKEEP: What's the difference to you?

KEATON: Well, I just, you know, never use that expression, in my career, you know, my career - my career - I don't know. It's - I come from a background where you don't really talk about yourself much. It's somewhat self-involved, you know? My career, you know, my career, I need my career. I do a lot of different things, but my income primarily comes from this - so what I do for a living.

INSKEEP: Could I just mention that in this film, you as an actor, as well as your character, seem to make yourself vulnerable here.

KEATON: Oh, yeah, beyond that. Yeah.

INSKEEP: You're in certain poses where you're clearly vulnerable.

KEATON: Yeah.

INSKEEP: You're up there on camera. Your face is 25 feet high and just clearly not made-up in any way. I mean, we see every line in your face.

KEATON: Yes.

INSKEEP: There were probably wrinkles on your face longer than my arm given the size they were...

KEATON: They were probably wrinkles that just got created for the movie.

INSKEEP: (Laughter).

KEATON: Jesus (laughter). I don't want to accuse anyone of any CGI work, but holy macaroni. First of all, it didn't matter. That's the job. I'm not a pretty guy. That's not my thing. So it doesn't matter in this case because vanity doesn't enter the picture here. I mean, since I was a kid, I loved that kind of stuff. That's the chance that, you know - I don't know - funny beards and big ears and kind of dirty - I don't know. I just like that kind of stuff. It makes me feel like I'm actually doing something.

INSKEEP: I was drawn into this story in large measure because it is a play being put on that is based on a short story collection - and a specific short story - by Raymond Carver, "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love."And...

KEATON: Yeah.

INSKEEP: ...And it's four people getting drunk while talking about what love is.

KEATON: Yeah, I think people get drunk in his short stories a lot.

INSKEEP: Yeah, it's one of the major factors in a Raymond Carver story. But so is love...

KEATON: Yeah.

INSKEEP: ...Or trying to figure out what it is.

KEATON: Yeah.

INSKEEP: And I'm trying to figure out where that fits with some of the other ambitions emotions and themes because we're talking here about film versus theater. We're talking about fame versus respect. We're talking about a business versus art. Does love fit in there somewhere?

KEATON: There's, you know, the theory or the philosophy or the belief that you live in two places. You either live in fear, or you live in love, you know? And fear sure don't work. And show business is essentially a fear-based industry, so...

INSKEEP: What do you mean, fear of failing, fear of being fired? What's the fear?

KEATON: You know, fear that, am I popular? Am I going to hit the studio next week? Is this movie going to open? Am I going to get funded? Am I going to get the job? And then there's this kind of strange survival-of-the-fittest instinct, kind of in like "Lord Of The Flies," things that subconsciously takes over where people will sense that and then see how they can take advantage - you know...

INSKEEP: Sure.

KEATON: ...It gets opportunistic, you know. It gets kind of like a wolf pack. And you're done - in my opinion, you know, you're done if you buy into that. You're just done. I am assuming you're not allowed to curse - am I allowed to curse on this show?

INSKEEP: You can do anything you want.

KEATON: Well, then if you believe in that, you're [bleep].That's what I really wanted to say (laughter). So you can't do that. And that's what Riggan Thomson, the character I play, didn't/doesn't get, but then he kind of does, without giving too much of this movie away.

INSKEEP: So you just laid out this philosophy saying that you either live in fear or you live in love. And then you said, I don't live in fear or I try not to anyway.

KEATON: Right.

INSKEEP: Does that mean...

KEATON: No, yeah, you don't want to do that.

INSKEEP: Are you doing the opposite? Are you living in love, and what does that mean?

KEATON: You know, you're constantly judging people, and, you know, selfishly it will help me. But I just don't think that's a good way to live, you know, to judge people and to quote my boy Franny over there in Rome, who am I to judge?

INSKEEP: Oh, Pope Francis.

KEATON: Yeah.

INSKEEP: I didn't know he was your boy. That's good to know.

KEATON: Oh, yeah, I got a statue of St. Francis in my front yard, and I'm not even a practicing Catholic.

INSKEEP: Oh, so it sounds like living in love for you is letting go of things, not holding things against people?

KEATON: Oh, man, it's a lot of things. Courage, I guess you could say, you know, not constantly putting yourself in a position where you're kind of screwed, you know. You're out of flow as soon as you start tightening up, right? And you usually tighten up if you're fearful. That's why, you know, acting's such an interesting kind of way to make a living. It's such an interesting art form or trade or craft - whatever it is - because when it's being done - well, I think at least for me - is you're 100 percent present, and at the same time, you just totally let go. I used to compete riding cutting horses, and this is a trained horse, trained to do a certain thing.

INSKEEP: Right.

KEATON: And you have to hope that at that point, your horse is so well-trained and his or her instincts are so strong, that you have to trust the animal. You know, I'm just going to let go, man. I can't tighten up my legs. I can't get too locked up in my body. And at the same time, I've got to stay 100 percent present. That's essentially for me what I'm doing. You know, I'm locked in solid. And at the same time, I'm just not in control of it at all. You just kind of let it occur.

INSKEEP: Well, Michael Keaton, thanks very much. I really enjoyed this.

KEATON: Thank you very much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.