In 'Steve Jobs,' A Life Told In 3 Acts — And Countless Complexities

Transcript

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Now we want to focus on a new movie about a man who changed how we see and use technology, a visionary, but also an indifferent father and a mercurial, even abusive boss. He is Apple co-founder Steve Jobs, at least as portrayed in a new film directed by Danny Boyle. Boyle, along with screenwriter Aaron Sorkin and leading man Michael Fassbender, has created a provocative, tightly-crafted work about a critical figure of the 20th century. When I spoke with Boyle, perhaps best known as director of the Oscar-winning "Slumdog Millionaire," I asked him what attracted him to the project. And he talked about the magic of Sorkin's script.

DANNY BOYLE: It was so different to anything I ever read. You know, I think your listeners will probably be familiar with Aaron Sorkin. He writes astonishing dialogue, just breathtaking. Even Tarantino, who writes some pretty good stuff himself, said that he's the greatest American writer of dialogue.

MARTIN: You know what? It's amazing that a film about pasty white guys in sweaters could be so dramatic.

BOYLE: (Laughter) It is, and it was a challenge. I mean, I know people always come on shows like this and say it was a challenge. But really, for goodness sake it was a challenge like I'd never faced before. The way it's written, you have these three scenes with six characters, and that's it. There's no manual explaining how you might do this. It's a provocation to a director about how you might actually try and capture what we call the sound of his mind, really. And can you make a film of that? Can you make cinema of that?

MARTIN: So was the fun of it for you working with Sorkin, or was it figuring out how to make a story about basically engineers and a product launch - make that dramatic and exciting?

BOYLE: It's a lot of those things all figure in. But the two most significant ones for me were that it was an attempt to get at one of the key figures in our lives. So it's in a lineage from Aaron Sorkin's previous film, "Social Network," which dealt with Mark Zuckerberg and the origins of Facebook. These are the key people in our lives. Their stories are often protected by the huge corporations they've ended up building, which have taken over from the banks, from the oil companies, from the pharmaceutical companies. These people are the controllers of the world in many ways, more powerful than governments. It was wonderful to address that. And secondly, it was the - it's a very humane story because it's actually about fathers and daughters. And actually, I have two daughters. And although I hope I didn't behave to them in the way that you see Steve Jobs behave at times towards his daughter Lisa, I know there's been sacrifices in my own life that I've made in terms of my relationship with them in order to pursue a career. You know, and so it becomes something that you can feel very personal about as well. It's a different way of looking at someone who belongs to us, came out of us, extraordinary man though he clearly was, and you create a character based on this historical figure.

MARTIN: Let me play a short clip. This is a scene between Steve Jobs and his erstwhile partner, the person he kind of started with, Steve Wozniak, who was critical to the foundations of the business. And I'll just play a that short clip.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "STEVE JOBS")

SETH ROGEN: (As Steve Wozniak) You can't write code. You're not an engineer. You're not a designer. You can't put a hammer to a nail. I built the circuit board. The graphical interface was stolen from Xerox PARC. Jef Raskin was the leader of the Mac team before you threw him off his own project. Everything - someone else designed the box. So how come 10 times in a day I read Steve Jobs is a genius? What do you do?

MICHAEL FASSBENDER: (As Steve Jobs) I play the orchestra.

MARTIN: Of course, that's Seth Rogen, who plays the character Steve Wozniak. And that's Michael Fassbender, who plays Steve Jobs. You know, it gets to what's interesting about this film is, you know, that it focuses a lot on those relationships that often aren't discussed when you talk about, you know, the great person and all that he has wrought. You know, I actually spent some time in the business press. And the personal relationships are hardly ever talked about except in the sense of well, you know, he's hard-driving. This film talks about what that really could mean. Some of the reviews that I've read so far think the film's too mean.

BOYLE: (Laughter) It's very uncompromising. And I love that about it. And certainly Michael Fassbender's performance does not compromise in a truly noble way because it's a danger with movies - you know, you've got studios; there's lots of money involved. Everybody wants the likability factor. But you have an obligation with Jobs to deal with some of the reputation, which is evidenced, you know? It's clearly evidenced by people who knew him about his behavior. And of course, what you're trying to show is why he behaved like that. And there are many - there's some personal and business reasons why he did that, which were explored in the film through these individuals - like you say, it's through this relationship. And with Woz, it's really - it's an acknowledgment of the past, really because Woz's drive is brilliantly played by Seth Rogen. You know, he's a decent man who just - and a brilliant engineer - who just wants him to acknowledge that he's standing on the shoulders of giants. But Steve's obsession is where we're going, not where we've been. And he is maniacally focused on that and will eviscerate anything that reminds him of the past in the way. And he was so concerned, especially in the early scenes where he's trying to literally create - it's like a creationist myth. He's trying to kind of make you believe in something that doesn't exist yet, that you can't even imagine yet. He can only do that, he feels, by actually not acknowledging all the people who've helped him. The other thing, Michel, that's strange doing stuff like this is it's very like film directing because I also don't have any skills, like Woz accuses him of in that clip you just played. I don't really - I can't fix a camera. I can't really act. I can't do makeup, costume, stuff like that. But you synthesize the talents that can and you give them a vision, you know, something that doesn't exist yet that you're all aiming towards. And you have to be responsible. I mean, I'm a believer in what Woz goes on to say, which is that it's possible to do great work and behave decently at the same time, you know? And that's one of the key golden threads that runs through the film.

MARTIN: Why is it so important to display the full range of this person's character? And I'm wondering is there in some ways an indictment of us in the audience, you know, who all have these Apple products in our products and in our purses and in our desks to say you need to be accountable for what actually went into this?

BOYLE: I guess. I mean, I think these companies and their products have turned the world on its axis in literally the blink of an eye. And these people often then become unanswerable because they bring prosperity and progress to so many places in the world that nobody wants to challenge them about what are they based on? With Steve, it comes out of - he made products that people fall in love with in a way that I think we never really imagined it would ever be possible - to literally have a romance with a piece of equipment - and so many of us do. You know, it's the last thing we say goodnight to before we go to sleep. You know, it's the first thing you check when you wake up. We take these things to bed now. And yet 40 years ago, our image of computers was, you know, faceless monstrous things really, which were frightening, and every development they made was a threat to mankind. And he turned that around to make you feel that the personal computer could be a warm, friendly thing that would be your sidekick.

MARTIN: But how do you want us to understand this information now that you have presented it to us? It's interesting, I read a piece in the business press after Walter Isaacson's biography came out, and it asked executives what lesson they were drawing from Steve Jobs' life and were totally different. Some people were saying treating people this way, it's not worth it. Other people were taking the exact opposite message, saying I've got to do what I've got to do. Is there a message you want us to draw from this now that you've laid it out for us?

BOYLE: We are all flawed, really. It's the Shakespearean thing. He takes this intensely powerful man, who, by the time the film finishes and the launch of the iMac, it's clearly going to be hugely successful and to change the world. And he brings him to task really about what he has sacrificed and what pain he has caused in order to achieve that. And it's interesting the way the film brings him to silence almost in that way, and then acknowledgment that though he's made some of the most beautiful things imaginable, he is himself poorly made.

MARTIN: Danny Boyle, Academy Award winner, is the director of "Steve Jobs," which comes out in theaters across the country next week. Danny Boyle, thanks so much for speaking with us.

BOYLE: Thanks, Michel. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.