Ukrainian Lawmaker: 'We Are Hostages Of Putin'

Transcript

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:

We're going to hear now from a member of Ukraine's Parliament. Before Mustafa Nayyem went into politics, he was an activist and a reporter who played a leading role in the Maidan protests, the protests which ousted President Viktor Yanukovych. He is in Washington this week to receive an award for his role in those protests, and he joins us in the studio. Welcome to the program. As we hear every day, Ukraine is facing a serious threat. You don't have very high hopes of there being any diplomatic resolution of this problem this week in Minsk.

MUSTAFA NAYYEM: You know, we've heard these arguments through eight months negotiated a lot of times. And we had Minsk agreements which were not fulfilled by Russia, so I don't believe - not because I don't want to believe them - it's because we had some experience. We are hostages of the situation. We are hostages of Putin who are hostages of Russia and their policymakers. So how we can believe that someone fulfill our demands if they didn't before?

SIEGEL: The U.S. policymakers are wavering about whether or not to arm Ukraine further. The Germans - Chancellor Merkel is just publicly against it. Are you resigned to the likelihood that NATO will not have a unified position in support of Ukrainian sovereignty and integrity?

NAYYEM: You know, it's a matter of time, I think, because we had the same situation during Maidan when Minister of Foreign Affairs of Germany and France - they signed agreement with Yanukovych, and the next day, a lot of people was killed in the streets of (unintelligible). So we see the same situation. It's just a matter of time. I think that every day we're losing time and Putin is getting more powerful on the border of Ukraine. That's the problem. If we are ready to recognize that, OK, maybe someday we'll start this war but not today, then we should have some deadlines. Every day we are losing 10, 12, 20 people. And what is deadline? Thousands or what?

SIEGEL: I'm going to ask you a little bit about yourself. You are a Ukrainian - grew up, went to high school in Ukraine, but you're from Afghanistan originally.

NAYYEM: Yes, I was born in Afghanistan in 1981. By the way, it's very ironic situation because my father was 33 like me when Russian troops invaded Afghanistan, and I know what is that to live in a country which is in state of war.

SIEGEL: When Russians start telling nightmare scenarios of life in Ukraine they say it's all Nazis in Kiev and neofascists and racists. Have you experienced racism in Kiev?

NAYYEM: It's very ridiculous because our listeners they can't see that I'm black one, yes?

SIEGEL: You don't look like the average Ukrainian.

NAYYEM: Yes, and for the second is that, you know, during Maidan - on our stages had Jewish people, Russian people from the United States, from Germany, from other countries, and we didn't have any problems.

SIEGEL: In the Maidan.

NAYYEM: Yes, in the Maidan. First people who was killed in Maidan was Armenians and Georgians. It was not Ukrainian. So, yeah, we have some problems. But tell me please, does French have not these problems?

SIEGEL: Do you think that the fighting in eastern Ukraine has now gone on so long that people would really be willing to accept far less compromise on sovereignty and even where the border is so long as the fighting stops?

NAYYEM: You know, it's very very complicated question because it's very dangerous that people who are now fighting in some month, maybe years, they will lose the habits of peaceful life. That what happened in Afghanistan. I mean, it is very hard to bring back them to peace life. Now what I see is that OK, we have 5,000 people killed officially, and we have a lot of people injured. And all those families - all those people that demand to do something - to fight, to pursue this fight. I think it will be very hard to convince them to stop. But from the other side, if the Russian will really leave our territory, if there will be chance to be independent in our borders, I think our leadership and our president and prime minister - they will be able to convince them.

SIEGEL: Mustafa Nayyem, thank you very much for talking with us.

NAYYEM: Thank you very much for invitation.

SIEGEL: Mustafa Nayyem is a member of the Ukrainian Parliament. And before entering politics, he was an activist, a journalist who was among the early demonstrators in Kiev's Maidan Square at the beginning of last year. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.