Where Is North Korea's Leader?

Transcript

MELISSA BLOCK, HOST:

Where is Kim? Speculation is swirling over the whereabouts of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un. The young leader hasn't been seen in public for five weeks. So what does that absence mean?

To talk about that, I'm joined by Stephen Bosworth. He used to be in charge of North Korea policy during the Obama administration.

Welcome to the program.

STEPHEN BOSWORTH: My pleasure. Nice to be with you.

BLOCK: This absence has raised lots of questions about Kim's health, there've been rumors of a coup. What do you make of this absence?

BOSWORTH: I frankly don't know. I don't think anyone really knows what's going on in North Korea, except probably a very select few North Koreans. But it strikes me that much of what we're hearing now is sort of the inevitable speculation and rumoring that goes on with regard to North Korea in general, on an ongoing basis.

BLOCK: Because it is so hard to get information. It is a long absence - five weeks is a long time. Have we seen anything like that before?

BOSWORTH: Well, we've seen such things from his father and before that, from his grandfather. They don't feel a need to let the world know where they are at all moments. It's a little bit different than our system. There is a certain atmosphere of business as usual in North Korea. They just sent a very high level senior delegation down to the South and announced together with Seoul over the last few days that they're going to reignite high-level talks. I mean, this is a little incongruous if indeed there had just been something that resulted in a change in the nature of the regime, or the change in leadership.

BLOCK: Would you assume that if there were a coup, we would know by now?

BOSWORTH: I would think so but who knows? I mean, I think a lot of the speculation, you have to realize, is the fruit of a fact that for years now lots of people outside have been predicting the imminent demise of the Kim regime.

BLOCK: Sure.

BOSWORTH: And that's been, in some lamentable sense, the foundation for policy toward North Korea on the part of some countries, including from time to time, the U.S. And the last time I checked, they're still there.

So this is, to some extent, a kind of effort to vindicate the past predictions.

BLOCK: In North Korea itself, how conspicuous would Kim Jong Un's absence be? Would North Koreans be used to seeing images of their leader out and about doing things that for the last five weeks, they haven't seen?

BOSWORTH: Yes, they probably would be. But on the other hand, I don't think in their day-to-day existence that there's much opportunity for them to do other than reflect upon it as individuals. This is probably not a wide subject of discussion. You know, five weeks is not, by their standards, a long time for there to have been no news of the leader. There is an event tomorrow which is the commemoration of the founding of the Korean Workers' Party and if he didn't show up for that, it might be some reason to continue the speculation that's been going on. But we will know what's happening there, if anything is happening there, when they want us to know.

BLOCK: You are former U.S. ambassador to South Korea.

BOSWORTH: Yes.

BLOCK: I imagine you are very much familiar with the varying agendas that might be at play in fostering speculation about just what's going on in North Korea.

BOSWORTH: That's right. I mean, you know, I can't speculate about the motives of who's doing all the speculating right now. But in fact, there are constituencies in groups and individuals in South Korea and elsewhere. In this country as well and in Japan and around the world, who see this as finally, as evidence of their long, long harbored belief that North Korea must inevitably collapse. And indeed maybe it will at some point, but in my judgment, that's not an adequate basis for a policy toward North Korea. You have to deal with North Korea not as you think it might be in the future or as you would like it to be, you have to deal with it as it is.

BLOCK: Well, Ambassador Bosworth, thanks very much for talking with us.

BOSWORTH: You're very welcome.

BLOCK: That's Stephen Bosworth. He's a senior fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government.

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:

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