6 months in, Hakeem Jeffries reflects on the debt ceiling drama and replacing Pelosi

Transcript

JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:

Political leaders in both parties averted disaster last week when Congress approved, and President Biden signed into law, a bill to lift the debt ceiling and prevent a government default. The deal was brokered by the White House and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who presides over a narrow House majority including a significant vocal group of hard-line conservatives. McCarthy's counterpart in the House is Hakeem Jeffries, who was sworn in to lead House Democrats roughly six months ago. Neither party came away from the debt ceiling deal fully satisfied. But ultimately, when that deal passed the House last week, it was with Democrats playing a larger role than Republicans. I sat down with Jeffries in his office at the Capitol earlier today, and I started by asking him whether he thought the final debt ceiling compromise was a good one and whether Democrats had given away too much.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, President Biden did a very good job under difficult circumstances. It was incredibly important that we avoid this dangerous default even though there were many extreme MAGA Republicans who were determined to bring that about. And I'm thankful for President Biden's leadership and the role that House Democrats played in making sure that we avoided a default, but also arrived at a resolution that protected our priorities and our values in so many different areas.

SUMMERS: I know that this was a deal that was largely brokered by President Biden, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Did you at any point in your conversations with Speaker McCarthy about this promise to deliver a certain number of Democratic votes, a range of Democratic votes? Was that a conversation between the two of you?

JEFFRIES: No. We made clear publicly, as well as privately, that it was our expectation that House Republicans would deliver at least 150 votes in connection with an agreement that they themselves negotiated with the Biden administration. Once an agreement was finalized, we made sure that there was an active, open and ongoing conversation so that the members of the House Democratic Caucus could get all of the information that they needed to make the best possible decision in advance of the floor vote to avoid a default.

SUMMERS: So no specific agreement on the number of Democrats that would go on board here?

JEFFRIES: No.

SUMMERS: I want to ask you about the dynamics in your own caucus here...

JEFFRIES: Other than the fact that we made clear that since it was our expectation that House Republicans would produce at least 150 votes, that we would ensure that the country did not default.

SUMMERS: I want to ask you a little bit about the dynamics within your own caucus. There are a number of progressive Democrats who have made the point that they were dissatisfied with some parts of this deal including work requirements, some environmental measures, among other things. What do you say to members of your party who feel like they just watched Republicans use the nation's debt limit as a political wedge and that Democrats, possibly, and the president even should have come to the table earlier to ensure that Republicans didn't exact all of the things that they did in this deal in terms of the concessions they were able to get here?

JEFFRIES: Well, President Biden did a very good job under difficult circumstances given the fact that there was a willingness by some extreme right-wing folks on the other side of the aisle to actually default on our debt, crash the economy, and trigger a job-killing recession in order to extract maximum pain on the economy, which they thought they could leverage, to maximize political benefit for themselves in 2024. In that context, President Biden, you know, was able to protect those important priorities that we cared about and mitigate the damage that could otherwise have been done including, as it relates, you know, to the SNAP program.

It's extraordinary when you think about the fact that extreme MAGA Republicans were determined to reduce the number of people who had access to nutritional benefit programs in the United States. But because the Biden administration was able to expand exemptions, the independent Congressional Budget Office concluded that as a result of the changes made in the debt ceiling resolution to the SNAP program, approximately, a million more Americans every year will have access to Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program food benefits. That's an extraordinary thing.

SUMMERS: When you look at the margins on the other side, there are 71 Republicans who defected and did not support Speaker McCarthy despite his hands-on role in that negotiation. What does that tell you, as someone who works with Speaker McCarthy on a day-to-day basis, about his ability to govern a caucus with many factions?

JEFFRIES: Either one of two things will happen. Either the House will be unable to function at all because the extreme MAGA Republican wing of the House Republican Conference is determined to bring about a my-way-or-the-highway situation - alternatively, House Republicans can decide to partner with President Biden, House Democrats and the Senate to try to find common-ground, bipartisan consensus in areas where we are investing in the health, safety and economic well-being of the American people as opposed to trying to undermine it at every turn.

SUMMERS: Are you concerned about that my-way-or-the-highway mentality, as you describe it? I'm thinking of the fact that we saw a small group of right-leaning Republicans who blocked a procedural move on a rule even in the House floor yesterday. Does that concern you when we think about things like a potential government shutdown in October?

JEFFRIES: From the beginning, the Republicans were determined to either bring about the draconian cuts that were part of the Default on America Act, jam their Polluters Over People legislation into any ultimate resolution, and gut things like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, veterans benefits. They failed on all those fronts. If extreme MAGA Republicans think that they can extract concessions that are inconsistent with what the American people want, they are badly mistaken.

SUMMERS: I want to ask you a little bit about your tenure in this job. You became leader of the Democrats in the House roughly six months ago. Your predecessor, Nancy Pelosi, was known for her political acumen, her ability to count votes well. I am curious. How would you characterize your style in this role compared to her style in this role? And is there any specific pieces of advice that she gave you that inform the way you approach it?

JEFFRIES: Well, Speaker Pelosi is an iconic, legendary leader, and it's been an honor and a blessing to have spent time serving in leadership with her in the previous few Congresses and to continue to get the benefit of her advice, guidance and insight moving forward.

SUMMERS: Stylistically, though, I want to ask that again. How would you characterize your style in this role versus her style? I mean, it is an interesting dynamic having your predecessor still as a member of the House while you are now in this new job.

JEFFRIES: Well, I'll leave it to others to characterize my style other than to say it's very difficult to follow Michael Jordan. And I'm following Michael Jordan.

SUMMERS: One of the things that my colleagues has (ph) heard from Speaker McCarthy when it comes to you is he's told them and others that he has a better working relationship with you than he did with Speaker Pelosi. Do you think that's true?

JEFFRIES: Well, I can't comment on what relationship may have existed between Kevin McCarthy and prior leadership, but I can say that we have a very good working relationship. From the very beginning, we decided that we were going to communicate with each other honestly, authentically and consistently. And we've been able to do that. It doesn't mean that we will always agree. We disagree often, but we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable. And we've both tried to take that approach.

SUMMERS: Leader Hakeem Jeffries, thank you.

JEFFRIES: Appreciate you.

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