'60s 'Dish' Maggie Smith Says, 'That Was Never Me'
Many Americans know Dame Maggie Smith as the elegant and formidable Dowager Countess of Grantham. But at 81, Smith is now starring in a role that's a long way from Downton Abbey. In The Lady in the Van, Smith is Mary Shepherd — a homeless woman who lived in a derelict van parked in playwright Alan Bennett's driveway for 15 years.
"She was quite happy on the street," Smith tells NPR's Renee Montagne. "But I think Alan was so distressed watching her outside his window all the time that he thought he just had to help."
He never expected her to stay — but she did. And though Shepherd and Bennett didn't become friends by any stretch, the playwright was "obviously fascinated by her," says Smith.
Smith talks with Montagne about the characters she's inhabited in her decades of acting, from 1960s Broadway to Downton Abbey.
Interview Highlights
On getting the best lines in Downton Abbey
Well, I don't know. They're Julian Fellowes' lines, who wrote it. ... I think she stuck to her principles in the way she had lived. She could see what was going on more than a lot of other people. She was a wise old bird. She'd been there and done that and got the T-shirt.
On whether there's a link between Downton Abbey ending and Smith saying she would leave the show after its sixth season
No — this is absolutely not true. In fact, I phoned our dear producer Liz Trubridge the other day, and I said, "Now, what is this? I'd heard that somebody had said ... " — it was the paper or something. And she said, "No, that's absolutely rubbish." I mean, it's come to its end.
On how Downton Abbey made her a household name
I find it very odd to be recognized. I've spent a very long time without that happening to me. And it's a very, very strange sensation. ... Sometimes it's very nice. But sometimes, you just would like to be on your own, to do things on your own, without thinking about whether you're going to be stalked or asked to pose for one of those wretched cellphone things.
["A selfie?" Montagne clarifies]
Well, I suppose, yes.
On being described as "an undeniable dish" in a review in the 1960s, and why she never embraced that characterization — but has heartily embraced older roles
That never was me. The "dish" department didn't apply. ... I think it's got something to do with one not being a "dish" ... because then you become a character actor and you have much more chance of developing and going on.
I mean, God knows it must be lovely to be beautiful, but that's a really difficult thing to lose. But if you've been into character acting really all your life, it's an easy transition. You just go from one to the other and you suddenly realize, "Oh, I see I'm somebody's mother this time. And I'm somebody's grandmother." And so it goes on.
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Transcript
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We're going to hear a voice now that could not be mistaken for any other, Dame Maggie Smith. For many Americans, she is the formidable dowager countess from "Downton Abbey."
(SOUNDBITE OF JOHN LUNN SONG, "DID I MAKE THE MOST OF LOVING YOU")
INSKEEP: She joined our Renee Montagne to look back on the character she's taken on over six decades of acting.
RENEE MONTAGNE, BYLINE: And at 81, Maggie Smith is starring in a new movie that's a long, long way from "Downton Abbey." Set in London, it reunites her with another of Britain's national treasures, playwright Alan Bennett. In "The Lady In The Van," she plays an occasionally delusional homeless woman as bedraggled as the countess is elegant. And the character happens to have been real - Miss Shepherd, who lived in her derelict van parked in the playwright's drive for 15 years.
MAGGIE SMITH: She was quite happy on the street. But I think Alan was so distressed watching her outside his window all the time that he thought he, you know, just had to help. But it was just for a temporary measure, you know. He didn't think that she was going to stay. But she certainly did.
MONTAGNE: She did. And while they didn't quite become friends...
SMITH: I would hardly say - no, not friends. I think he was obviously fascinated by her, in a way.
MONTAGNE: And she's quite resistant to help, not even very friendly to the people who are helping her...
SMITH: No, not at all.
MONTAGNE: But also witty. Is there a line that makes even you smile?
SMITH: Goodness me, there are so many. I hadn't put my head in that area. You'd think it would be with me all the time. Well, she sort of inquires when she first sees him. She says, you're not St. John, are you?
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE LADY IN THE VAN")
ALEX JENNINGS: (As Alan Bennett) St. John who?
SMITH: (As Miss Shepherd) St. John, the disciple whom Jesus loved?
JENNINGS: (As Alan Bennett) No, the name's Bennett.
SMITH: (As Miss Shepherd) Oh, well, if you're not St. John, I need a push for the van. It's conked out - the battery, possibly. I put some water in. It hasn't done the trick.
JENNINGS: (As Alan Bennett) Well, was it distilled water?
SMITH: It was holy water.
MONTAGNE: (Laughter) I will say this. You have a way with, among other things, sly, sly wit. And when it comes to wit and biting lines, it does not get better than "Downton Abbey."
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "DOWNTON ABBEY")
SMITH: (As Violet Crawley) Well, you and I differ when it comes to the importance of things. Does it ever get cold on the moral high ground?
MONTAGNE: (Laughter).
SMITH: That certainly isn't Miss Shepherd.
MONTAGNE: No, that is not Miss Shepherd.
SMITH: (Laughter) No.
MONTAGNE: That is the famous, infamous dowager countess from "Downton Abbey."
SMITH: That's the dowager, yeah.
MONTAGNE: And in this moment, sticking it to her friend, but also occasional nemesis, Isobel Crawley.
SMITH: Yeah.
MONTAGNE: You do get the best lines in "Downton Abbey."
SMITH: Well, I don't - I don't know. They're all - they're Julian's lines, in fact, Julian Fellowes' lines, who wrote it.
MONTAGNE: Well, he's said as much. He said you - he gives you the best lines.
SMITH: Well, I must say, there were some really lovely things to say. And we just had great fun together.
MONTAGNE: Well, I must say, though, the wonderful thing about your character is that she is a reality check. You know, you would think the reality of her life is disappearing into the past. But she continues to pop in, in her sort of vinegary way, and just checks everybody.
SMITH: I think so. I think she stuck to her principles in the way she had lived. She could see what was going on more than, you know, a lot of other people. She was a wise old bird. She'd been there and done that and got the T-shirt (laughter).
MONTAGNE: Well, when you started, "Downton Abbey" was not intended or expected to last this many seasons.
SMITH: No, I think it took everybody by surprise.
MONTAGNE: What did you - what have you made or what do you make of becoming, through "Downton Abbey," something of a household name?
SMITH: I find it very odd to be recognized. I've spent a very long time without that happening to me. And it's a very, very strange sensation.
MONTAGNE: And not a pleasant one?
SMITH: Well, it depends. I mean, sometimes it's very nice. But sometimes, you just would like to do things on your own without thinking about whether you're going to be stopped to pose for, you know, one of those wretched cell phone things.
MONTAGNE: The selfie?
SMITH: The self - well, I suppose, yes.
MONTAGNE: Well, I, though, would have thought that you would have been at least occasionally recognized on the street because of your role in the "Harry Potter" films, Professor McGonagall.
SMITH: Yes. Yes, indeed, occasionally. But "Downton Abbey" has really - it's a completely overwhelming thing. I mean, it won't go on and on and on because it's at an end here. And it will come to an end in the states. And it will gradually - people will forget. But then, by that time, I probably won't be around.
MONTAGNE: Well, I hope - I hope so (laughter).
SMITH: No, but you don't - (laughter) - you don't know. One has to be realistic.
MONTAGNE: Well, I have been reading some old reviews from the Variety Archives. And I wanted to say, when you were in your 20s and you starred in the Broadway hit "Mary Mary," this would have been about 1963. One reviewer called you a gem of an actress, an undeniable dish. And another critic was worried that, she doesn't become a theater legend too soon. She's far too young and delicious for that.
SMITH: Oh, what does that mean?
MONTAGNE: (Laughter) Dish and delicious. But it is the kind of feedback that could make any actress try to stretch out the sort of youthful beauty as long as possible.
SMITH: That never was me. The dish department didn't apply.
MONTAGNE: (Laughter). Well, I'm fascinated by the fact that you actually headed more or less the other way, that you've really embraced older characters - to me, that seem older than you are.
SMITH: I think that's got something to do with one's not being a dish, which I was trying to point out - because then you become a character actor. And you have much more chance of developing and going on. I mean, God knows it must be lovely to be beautiful. But that's a really difficult thing to lose. But if you've been into character acting really all your life, it's an easy transition. You just go from one to the other. You suddenly realize, oh, I see I'm somebody's mother this time. Then I'm somebody's grandmother. And so it goes on.
MONTAGNE: Well, Maggie Smith, thank you so much for joining us.
SMITH: Well, thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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