Alito neighbor gives detailed account of 'nasty' dispute that became national news
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Emily Baden stands in her backyard in San Francisco. Before moving to San Francisco, she was neighbors with Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, who she says was a quiet observer to heated exchanges between her and Alito’s wife, Martha-Ann Alito, regarding signs on the Baden family’s front yard.<i>Marissa Leshnov for NPR</i> -
Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito Jr. (left) and his wife Martha-Ann Alito, pay their respects at the casket of Reverend Billy Graham at the Rotunda of the U.S. Capitol Building in 2018.Pablo Martinez Monsivais / AP -
Abortion rights protesters demonstrate outside Supreme Court Justice Alito's home in Northern Virginia on June 27, 2022.Tasos Katopodis / Getty Images -
When Baden lived in Northern Virginia, she had series of tense interactions she had with Alito’s wife, Martha-Ann, around the time of the 2020 presidential election and the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.<i>Marissa Leshnov for NPR</i>
A liberal former neighbor of conservative Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito is publicly offering her account of a series of tense interactions she had with Alito’s wife, Martha-Ann, around the time of the 2020 presidential election and the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.
The saga began as a dispute over anti-Trump lawn signs and culminated in a profanity-filled confrontation on the street, which Justice Alito witnessed.
“This was one of the craziest things I've ever experienced in my life,” said the neighbor, Emily Baden, in an interview with NPR. “The power imbalance between these people and myself is huge. Like it literally couldn't get any bigger.”
Justice Alito has cited that neighborhood dispute as the context for the upside-down American flag that flew in front of his home in Northern Virginia in the days after the Capitol riot.
Sailors have historically used the upside-down flag as a symbol of distress. More recently, the upside-down American flag also became associated with the pro-Trump “stop the steal” movement and efforts to keep the former president in power. Some Trump supporters carried upside-down flags at the Jan. 6 riot. Because of that association, Democrats have called for Alito to recuse himself from cases related to Trump and the insurrection.
Alito has rejected those arguments and said his wife alone — over Justice Alito’s objections — raised the upside-down flag after the argument with Baden.
“My wife’s reasons for flying the flag are not relevant for present purposes,” Alito wrote to Democratic members of Congress, “but I note that she was greatly distressed at the time due, in large part, to a very nasty neighborhood dispute in which I had no involvement.”
He said that his wife was also solely responsible for displaying another flag, known as the “Appeal to Heaven,” at the Alito’s beach house in New Jersey. That flag dates back to the American Revolution and, in more recent years, has also been embraced by some far-right religious conservatives. “My wife is fond of flying flags,” Alito wrote. “I am not.”
Baden told NPR that Alito’s explanation for the upside-down flag is “ludicrous” and does not match the timeline of the neighborhood dispute. Baden acknowledges that she called Martha-Ann Alito the “c-word” on the street during one encounter, which she says Martha-Ann Alito initiated. But she notes that the incident took place weeks after the upside-down flag was raised in front of the Alito residence, according to reporting from the New York Times, which broke the story.
The Supreme Court did not respond to NPR’s request for comment.
A series of increasingly heated encounters
Baden and her husband (then boyfriend) moved in to her mother’s home in northern Virginia in 2020, after the COVID-19 pandemic forced her to stop working as an actor and restaurant server in New York.
Baden describes herself as a “leftist,” but says she initially did not think much about the Alitos down the street. The Alito house is farther down the cul-de-sac, and not visible from her mother’s front yard.
After Joe Biden was declared the winner of the 2020 presidential election, Baden celebrated and put up a handmade sign in the yard. On one side it said “BYE-DON,” and on the other “F*** Trump.”
One day, Baden says, the wind blew the sign down. According to Baden, Martha-Ann Alito happened to drive by and thanked Baden for taking the sign down. But Baden had no intention of leaving the sign down.
“I say, ‘I'm going to keep the sign up. Thank you. Bye.’ Or something like that. And that was it,” she says.
After the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, Baden put up a new sign stating, “You are complicit” and “Trump Is A Fascist.”
The following day, Baden says she and her husband were sitting in their car parked in front of her mother’s house, when someone drove up next to them.
“The person inside just stares at us, just glares at us,” Baden says. “And I was just sitting there, like, thinking to myself, ‘oh, my God, that's that's Mrs. Alito. That's her.’ And she's stopped there for a period of time that feels like forever and then drives off.”
“I texted some friends like, ‘You guys will never believe what just happened. I'm so weirded out right now,’” she says.
About a week or so later, according to the New York Times, the upside-down American flag started flying in front of the Alitos’ house. Baden says she never saw it.
Then, on Jan. 20, 2021, Joe Biden was set to be inaugurated as president. Baden says she and her husband decided to drive by the Alito home out of curiosity.
“I don't know if I expected to see anything or what I expected to see,” she says.
Baden says Martha Ann-Alito happened to be in front of the house.
“And she sees us and runs out to the street and she's yelling something and we don't hear it,” Baden says. “Our windows are up and we're in motion. So we don't hear what she's yelling.”
The street is a cul-de-sac, which meant Baden and her husband had to turn around and pass by the Alito home a second time.
“And we see in our rearview mirror that she, like, spits at our car, or it looks like she spat at our car and then we just got the hell out of there,” Baden says. In Baden’s account, Alito was not close enough to the car to make any contact.
The final – and most heated – encounter between Baden and the Alitos took place on Feb. 15, 2021.
“My husband and I are just in the driveway. We're getting the trash cans. And then the Alitos” - both Justice Alito and Martha-Ann Alito - “walk up, they presumably were just taking a walk.”
Baden says she and her husband were startled to see them.
“And then then Mrs. Alito says something like, ‘well, well, well, if it isn't the the f****** fascists, Emily and my husband's name and my mom's name, you're - you're a f****** fascist.’”
Baden says she was surprised to hear Martha-Ann Alito use each of their full names. Baden had never introduced herself by name, and she and her husband were not yet married and did not share a last name.
“And that was when I spoke back,” Baden says. “I just said, like, ‘How dare you behave this way? You represent the highest court in the land. What are you doing? I'm a stranger to you. This is because of my sign? That's insane.’”
Baden acknowledges that she called Martha-Ann Alito the “c-word.”
Alito described the use of “foul language” in his letter, and the “vilest epithet that can be addressed to a woman.”
Baden told NPR she now regrets using the word.
“They're choosing to harass and intimidate us when we are nothing to them. We're just random people,” Baden says. “So that would have been the message that I wanted to convey. And, you know, and if a curse word cheapened that somehow, then, yeah, I would say that I regretted saying it.”
Baden says Justice Alito remained silent throughout the entire encounter. As Baden yelled, the Alitos walked away.
“Mr. Alito is walking away much quicker,” she remembered. “he really got out of there.”
Soon after, Baden’s husband called the police and recorded the call. She shared the recording with NPR. The officer who answered told them that there was nothing he could do after the fact, but said that he would call the Alitos’ protective detail.
He told Baden’s husband to call the police again if there was another incident. But Baden says that was the last time that the Alitos and Baden encountered each other.
“My wife is a private citizen, and she possesses the same First Amendment rights as every other American,” Alito wrote in his letter to Congress. “She makes her own decisions, and I have always respected her right to do so.”
Transcript
AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Next story starts small - a neighborhood fight over lawn signs. But it goes all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. The New York Times recently reported that conservative Justice Samuel Alito had an upside-down flag flying in front of his home about a week after the January 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol. It raised a lot of questions, which Alito answered by saying this was about a political dispute between his wife and their liberal neighbors. NPR's Tom Dreisbach spoke to the neighbor at the center of the fight.
TOM DREISBACH, BYLINE: Like a lot of things about life in America today, this whole story was really only possible because of COVID. Emily Baden was working as an actor and restaurant server in New York when the once-in-a-century pandemic shut the country down, so she and her husband moved in with her mom in suburban D.C. Her mom just happened to live down the street from Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito and his wife, Martha-Ann. Now, Justice Alito is firmly on the political right. Emily Baden, on the other hand...
EMILY BADEN: I describe myself as a leftist.
DREISBACH: At first, Baden did not think much of the Alitos. They lived several houses down. You can't even see their place from her mom's front yard. Then Joe Biden won the 2020 election, and Baden put up a handmade side in the yard. On one side, it said, Byedon (ph). Get it? On the other, it said - paraphrasing the curse word for the radio here - F Trump. One day, Martha-Ann Alito happens to drive by.
BADEN: Pulls up in her car, says, thank you for taking the sign down.
DREISBACH: But she actually did not take it down. The wind had knocked it over, and she was not about to leave it down.
BADEN: I say, I'm going to keep the sign up. Thank you. Bye.
DREISBACH: Then came the January 6 attack on the Capitol. It's important to remember just how tense things were at the time. The Capitol had barbed wire around it, troops and camouflage on the streets of D.C. On their block, Baden put up a new sign - Trump is a fascist on one side and you are complicit on the other. So on the morning of January 7, Baden and her husband are parked in front of their house.
BADEN: This car pulls up and then stops next to us. And the person inside just stares at us, just glares at us. And I was just sitting there, like, you know, thinking to myself, oh, my God. That's Mrs. Alito. That's her. And, you know, she stopped there for a period of time that feels like forever and then drives off.
DREISBACH: Baden texted some friends, like, can you believe what just happened? About a week or so after this, the American flag flying in front of the Alito home gets turned upside down. For sailors, this is considered a distress signal. But at that particular time, it was also a symbol that supporters of the pro-Trump, quote-unquote, "stop the steal" movement used to protest Joe Biden's win. Some Trump supporters flew upside-down flags at the Capitol riot. For what it's worth, Emily Baden never actually saw the Alitos' flag. Other neighbors did, and they later sent pictures to The New York Times. Then comes Inauguration Day 2021. Baden says she and her husband are curious about what's going on over at the Alitos, so they drive by.
BADEN: I don't know if I expected to see anything or what I expected to see.
DREISBACH: Martha-Ann Alito was out front.
BADEN: She sees us and runs out to the street. And she's yelling something. And we don't hear - our windows are up, and we're in motion, so we don't hear what she's yelling.
DREISBACH: Now, the street is a cul-de-sac, so they have to actually turn around and go drive back by the house a second time. And this time, she says she saw Martha-Ann Alito talking to the security detail, gesturing at them.
BADEN: And we see in our rear-view mirror that she, like, spits at our car, or it looks like she spat at our car. And then we just got the hell out of there.
DREISBACH: Spits from how far away?
BADEN: Well, we're in motion, so it probably - I'm sure that it didn't hit our car.
DREISBACH: This was all just leading up to one more incident a few weeks later. And by all accounts, it was a lot more intense. It's February 15, 2021.
BADEN: My husband and I are just in the driveway. We're getting the trash cans. And then the Alitos walk up. They presumably were just taking a walk. And it's sort of a blind corner. So we didn't really see them coming. And then Mrs. Alito says something like, well, well, well, if it isn't the f***ing fascists, Emily and my husband's name and my mom's name. You're f***ing fascists.
DREISBACH: Baden says she was kind of freaked out. She says Alito had used their full names, but they'd never actually introduced themselves. And at the time, she and her husband weren't married, didn't even have the same name.
BADEN: Why do you know personal details about us? And that was when I spoke back, and I said - I did obviously use an expletive.
DREISBACH: That expletive was the C-word.
BADEN: But I also said a lot of other things like, how dare you behave this way? You're a Supreme Court justice of the United States. And now I'm addressing Mr. Alito, who was there and did not intervene in her behavior, which I took note of.
DREISBACH: The Alitos walked away as Baden yelled at them.
BADEN: And Mr. Alito is walking away much quicker 'cause I think, yeah, he really got out of there.
DREISBACH: Do you regret cursing at all?
BADEN: I guess I would say that I regret it. You know, the power imbalance between these people and myself is huge. Like, it literally couldn't get any bigger. And they're choosing to harass and intimidate us when we are nothing to them. We're just random people. And yeah, so that would have been the message that I wanted to convey. And, you know, and if a curse word cheapened that somehow, then, yeah, I would say that I regretted saying it.
DREISBACH: Right after this happened, Baden's husband actually called the cops. The officer who answered told them, basically, it's not illegal to yell at your neighbors. But he said he would call the Alitos' protective detail. Baden actually recorded that call to have a record of what happened.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: So what'll happen - OK? - if it does happen again - she's causing issues as far as for whatever, she's in your guys' yard, she's gone to you guys, it's a problem that's happening right then and there - call us back. We'll see if we can come out and handle it then on scene, OK?
DREISBACH: And that was the last time Emily Baden or her husband interacted with the Alitos. But then last month, The New York Times reported about the upside-down flag. Democrats said that flying a symbol associated with Trump meant Justice Alito should recuse from cases related to January 6. Alito rejected those arguments. He wrote a letter to Congress saying that his wife alone was responsible for flying the flag upside down. He claims he asked her to take it down, and she refused for several days. He also wrote that his wife's reasons for flying the flag upside down are, quote, "not relevant for present purposes." And then he described the dispute with Emily Baden and her husband and the use of the C-word.
But the fight with the C-word actually happened weeks after Martha-Ann Alito flew the flag upside down. We contacted the court and asked about that discrepancy but did not get a response. Based on these brief interactions, Baden says she is skeptical that Justice Alito really had nothing to do with the flag.
BADEN: He is representative of our entire judicial system and then we'll go on to make legally-binding decisions about the insurrection and, you know, election denialism. It should scare everyone.
DREISBACH: In his letter to Congress, Alito said that, quote, "any reasonable person would agree" that he does not need to recuse over the flag. Of course, what and who count as reasonable can depend on your political perspective or what side of the street you're on. Tom Dreisbach, NPR News. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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