Biden's national security adviser is hopeful war over Taiwan can be prevented

Transcript

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

President Biden's national security adviser sees a connection between U.S. democracy at home and U.S. influence abroad.

JAKE SULLIVAN: Two years after the awful events of January 6, the rest of the world is seeing the possibility of U.S. democracy being effectively sustained.

INSKEEP: We sat with Jake Sullivan in an office building next to the White House. He made a case the U.S. is back to promoting its values around the world. It has supported an elected government in Ukraine, for example. The U.S. has also, of course, deepened relations with undemocratic nations. Last year, President Biden visited Saudi Arabia, which he had previously called a pariah.

SULLIVAN: We also have to be focused on delivering fundamental security for our people. We have to be focused on delivering sustainable economic growth. And that means that there is a constant effort to, on the one hand, advance our values and, on the other hand, make sure we're protecting our interests.

INSKEEP: The U.S. has tightened relations with the Saudis or with Vietnam while confronting more powerful nations like Russia or China, which a good part of our conversation focused on. U.S. democracy may be chaotic. But Sullivan contends that China's authoritarian ruler, Xi Jinping, faces economic trouble and a new crisis over COVID.

SULLIVAN: When we entered office, there was a kind of view about the inevitability of China. Everything China did was going to work out for the best. And that system was far the preferable system. Two years later, I think it's very difficult to sustain that argument.

INSKEEP: Have you, in your recent actions, given the United States a fundamental advantage over China in access to key technologies? I'm thinking particularly of high-tech semiconductors, chips.

SULLIVAN: So semiconductors, as many people have now learned, actually, just since the COVID-19 pandemic, are fundamental to the powering of our economy across the board. Semiconductors are also central to military power. It is semiconductors that power the guidance systems for advanced missiles. It is semiconductors that are in every part of a nuclear submarine. And so what the United States has done is two things in the last two years. First, we've said we are going to invest once again in the United States of America being a manufacturing powerhouse for semiconductors so that we can have confidence in the supply of those semiconductors at any point. And no one can turn that off. Second, we've said we are no longer going to allow the most advanced chips, which are designed in the United States, to be used in the weapon systems of countries that are our strategic competitors, like the PRC.

INSKEEP: Of course, they're determined to build their own chip industry. And they have a lot of money to do it with. Do you think that you have assured a U.S. advantage or simply delayed China somewhat?

SULLIVAN: Nothing is assured in a world of high technology where disruptive breakthroughs are constant. But what we believe that we have done is created the best possible chance for the United States to ensure for as long as possible that no country that might eventually mean to do us harm can rely on our stuff to hold us at risk. That's what we've achieved.

INSKEEP: You're correct. The TSMC, the major Taiwanese chipmaker, announced the opening of a plant in Arizona. President Biden celebrated that. But Chris Miller, the author of a book called "Chip War," an expert in this area, noted that TSMC, the Taiwanese firm, is still doing the vast majority of its work on Taiwan, their most sophisticated work on Taiwan. And it's still a global supply chain. Any given chip might be in a half a dozen countries. Is the United States really secure from a severe disruption in this area?

SULLIVAN: This is going to be a matter of time. And it's not just TSMC, the Taiwan company. Samsung has made announcements. Micron has made announcements, Intel. And you've got in multiple states at multiple sites new construction that will create thousands of jobs and create the kind of resilience and sustainability in the supply chain we need. But that will take time. It will take years. So...

INSKEEP: But for the foreseeable future, an airstrike on Taiwan severely disrupts the whole U.S. economy. Is that true?

SULLIVAN: Well, look; I don't want to get into hypotheticals about what a particular military contingency would look like. But I will say this. When we entered office, more than 90% of the most advanced semiconductors were produced in Taiwan. Zero percent were produced in the United States. As of today, we still do rely on importing those chips. And we are going to have to build those fabs and create that leading edge manufacturing here in America. Again, you can't do that overnight. But we believe we are on a pathway to do that and that month by month, the U.S. supply chain is becoming more secure.

INSKEEP: We've spoken with a variety of analysts and also officials such as the new Republican chairman of a committee on China who see the risk of a war over Taiwan increasing. Do you see the risk of a war over Taiwan increasing?

SULLIVAN: There is risk of conflict with respect to Taiwan. But I believe that with responsible stewardship, we can ensure that that contingency never comes to pass. And that is our charge. That is our responsibility. And the whole object and thrust of the Biden administration's foreign policy is to put in place sufficient deterrence, support for Taiwan and diplomacy to ensure that we don't see a military contingency, that we don't see an invasion of Taiwan by the PRC.

INSKEEP: I've heard Chinese officials say that since the two presidents met late last year that maybe it's not correct to say that relations have improved, but that they saw a way forward for some agreements in some areas. Do you see it the same way? And what are some agreements you think you can make?

SULLIVAN: I believe that the meeting between the two presidents in Bali did, in fact, place a floor under the relationship. It provided some greater stability. And it gave direction to teams both in Beijing and in Washington to work on issues where it is in our common interests to make progress. For example, there is no reason that the United States and China, as the world's two largest emitters of carbon, that we cannot find a way to work together to reduce overall carbon emissions in the world and contribute to solving the climate crisis. There is no reason why the United States and China cannot work together to reduce the flow of precursor chemicals that go into fentanyl that is killing tens of thousands of Americans.

INSKEEP: Republicans, as you probably know, are convinced that China will use your interest in climate change against you, that they will offer cooperation on climate issues in exchange for something else that they want. Is that the way that it works?

SULLIVAN: Just look at the last two years. That's obviously not the way that it works. And in fact, President Biden has been explicit in saying that we don't view Chinese cooperation on climate change as some kind of favor to the United States. That's their obligation as the largest emitter in the world. And it's in their interest, too, because their people are choking on pollution. If the PRC decides it's not going to cooperate, that's to its detriment. And we will make sure the world understands that it's the one that's choosing to be recalcitrant. In fact, there was a period in the closing months of last year where the PRC said, we will not deal with the United States on climate. And we turned around to everyone else and said, hey, we're ready to do it. The fact that they're not, that's on them, not on us.

INSKEEP: Mr. Sullivan, thanks very much for your time.

SULLIVAN: Thanks for having me.

INSKEEP: Jake Sullivan is President Biden's national security adviser. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.