Little more than a day after being found liable for battery and defamation of a woman who says he raped her in the 1990s, former President Donald Trump is scheduled to take questions in a live town hall event on the news network whose journalists he called "the enemy of the people" while running for the presidency and serving in office.
Before the jury foreperson announced the verdict at a courtroom in lower Manhattan on Tuesday, the immediate stakes for Trump — and CNN — were already high. Now they are even higher.
For months, Trump has been furious at Fox News, which serves as a pillar of the Republican Party and its controlling owners Rupert and Lachlan Murdoch, who have been auditioning Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis as a GOP presidential candidate before Fox audiences.
Just hours before Tuesday's verdict in E. Jean Carroll's civil suit against him, Trump wrote an angry post on his Truth Social account inveighing against the Murdochs, Fox corporate director Paul Ryan ("Worst Republican Speaker ever") and their premier newspaper, The Wall Street Journal, as well as Fox, which he wrote was "rapidly disintegrating." (Indeed, its prime-time ratings have plunged since it fired star Tucker Carlson late last month, though Fox officials suggest they will rebound once a permanent replacement is named.)
The CNN appearance was intended to allow Trump to demonstrate his independence from a network often favored by his fans. It hasn't been a complete Fox blackout; Trump has given interviews this year to conservative Fox hosts Sean Hannity and Mark Levin, as well as Carlson before his departure. He also spoke to a Fox News digital reporter Tuesday night after the verdict in Carroll's suit went against him.
CNN has much to prove, as well. In his first year on the job, Chairman and CEO Chris Licht has sought to put his mark on the network by draining it of the relentless criticism of Trump in response to the crises and controversies that defined his administration. Many Republicans argue that CNN had become too ideological.
Licht canceled Brian Stelter's media criticism show Reliable Sources and shifted prime-time star Don Lemon to the morning. Both hosts had been outspoken against Trump. Lemon was fired this spring after accusations of sexism both on air and toward his female co-hosts. Lemon and his attorney contest those characterizations. Licht has told his staff they are reestablishing the channel's original identity.
He is echoing the message of his boss, David Zaslav, the chief executive of CNN's parent company, Warner Bros. Discovery.
"The U.S. has divided government," Zaslav said last week on CNBC. "We need to hear both voices. Republicans are on the air on CNN. Democrats are on the air. All voices should be heard on CNN."
"Our network is about the best version of the facts," Zaslav said. "This is a new CNN." Zaslav has dismissed concerns about CNN's tepid ratings, saying the channel could draw stronger audiences with more partisan fare. Carrying Trump on the air could cause viewership and buzz to spike, at least for the night.
A live town hall with Trump carries risks for CNN
The announcement of CNN's town hall with Trump engendered a backlash from both liberals and journalists who question the wisdom of putting Trump on the air live. During Trump's drive to the White House in 2015 and 2016, the press failed repeatedly to cover him adequately. His rapid-fire bombast and glibness with false claims and outright lies overwhelmed reporters' ability to process the implications of what he was saying in real time.
MSNBC host Mehdi Hasan argued against inviting Trump on. Failing that, however, he declared that CNN had an obligation to confront the former president about his record and his character, in and out of office. He said that CNN should start by asking Trump whether he had disqualified himself from the presidency, both for his actions ahead of the Jan. 6 riot on the U.S. Capitol and recent comments that appeared to justify "terminating" parts of the U.S. Constitution.
The CNN town hall will feature Republican and non-committed New Hampshire voters at St. Anselm College. It will be moderated by morning host Kaitlan Collins. She is well-known to Trump, as a former White House correspondent for CNN.
CNN political director David Chalian said the network approached the event as it would one for any candidate, but called Trump a "unique candidate" in that he's a former president — the first one to run for the White House in more than a century.
And Chalian acknowledged another distinction. Trump trashed governing norms. He was impeached twice by the U.S. House, though not convicted in the U.S. Senate.
"Obviously, he is under indictment in one case. He's under investigation in several other cases, and then there's the insurrection – January 6th – and how Donald Trump left office," Chalian told NPR before Tuesday's verdict in the Carroll case. "Our job is to do what we do best, which is to ask him questions, follow up, hold him accountable for his words and actions, and in this case, convene this conversation that he's going to have directly with voters as well."
Moderator Kaitlan Collins tussled with Trump as a White House reporter
Collins carries conservative bona fides as a former reporter for the Daily Caller, founded by Carlson. But she did not display a strong ideological affinity as a CNN White House reporter. Indeed, she was hardly seen as a pushover. Trump aides irked over her coverage once blocked her from attending a press conference. (The Trump White House unsuccessfully went to court to revoke the credentials of her colleague Jim Acosta.)
That's a more familiar dynamic for Trump and CNN. He earlier accused the network of "anger and hatred" toward him and said he considered it to be serving as the opposition to his administration.
Now he's encouraging followers to tune in Wednesday night. "They made me a deal I couldn't refuse!!!" Trump posted on his social media site, Truth Social. "Could be the beginning of a New & Vibrant CNN, with no more Fake News, or it could turn into a disaster for all, including me."
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Transcript
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Former President Trump never testified at the trial where he was found liable for sexual abuse and defamation, but one day after that verdict, he turns up on live television. CNN holds a town hall meeting tonight. Trump faces questions before an audience with host Kaitlan Collins. During Trump's presidential years, he made attacks on CNN part of his business model, and Collins was a CNN White House correspondent who asked him hard questions. Now the network is different, and Trump is no longer president. So how will this event go? NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik is on the line. David, good morning.
DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: Good morning, Steve.
INSKEEP: Why would Trump return to mainstream media now?
FOLKENFLIK: And particularly CNN, right? He called it the enemy of people, fake news. Well, you know, recently, he's been pumping for this event. He posted on Truth Social, the social media site, quote, "could be the beginning of a new and vibrant CNN with no more fake news, or it could turn into a disaster for all, including me." I think part of it is, you know, he's starting up gearing up for his run for the presidency for next year, and he's clearly upset with Fox News, a home for a lot of his most ardent supporters. Even though he's given interviews to Sean Hannity and former Fox host Tucker Carlson on that network in recent weeks, he's upset with it because the Murdochs that control that network have been auditioning Florida Governor Ron DeSantis as the possible lead candidate for Republicans. Trump knows Collins from the White House. You know, I think - he says he's going to be independent from Fox in certain ways.
INSKEEP: I feel like we're setting up a pro wrestling match here. You've got all these dramatic plot lines, and there's a plot line involving Trump and Fox. There's also a plot line involving CNN and its changes.
FOLKENFLIK: Yeah, right. Under Chris Licht, appointed as chairman of CNN early last year, CNN and its parent company, Warner Bros. Discovery, has been trying to say it's a new day at CNN. They've removed some of its programs that had some of the fiercest criticism of Trump - think Don Lemon being moved to the morning shows and finally being fired for unrelated issues, Brian Stelter's media criticism show "Reliable Sources" removed from the airwaves there. They basically have said, we've got a new lineup, a new day. We're going to be fair to Republicans and Democrats, they say, while still holding them accountable.
INSKEEP: Now, some people will question interviewing Donald Trump. There are people who argue you shouldn't talk with him. We made a different judgment at NPR. We've interviewed Donald Trump. So it's a thing that we believe you do. He's a newsworthy figure. But what are the risks or pitfalls of putting him on?
FOLKENFLIK: Well, look; this is not just a town hall where Collins is going to have to be navigating and moderating questions from Republicans and uncommitted voters in New Hampshire at Saint Anselm College, but it's also an event that's live. You know, Trump defined his run for the presidency - 2015, 2016, the first time around - by his bombast, but also by overwhelming the press with false claims and lies, and the press carried him live because of the incredible ratings they got and because of the astonishing phenomenon that he was. That became a big issue for CNN in intervening years. And, you know, Republicans argued they overcompensated.
INSKEEP: You mentioned Tucker Carlson. Let's talk about him before you go. The Fox News host, of course, was recently fired after a gigantic defamation settlement that Fox faced, and then he announced yesterday he's starting a new show on Twitter. Here's some of what he said.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
TUCKER CARLSON: There aren't many platforms left that allow free speech. The last big one remaining in the world, the only one, is Twitter.
INSKEEP: Dave, I've been texting with Tucker Carlson. He says he can't come on NPR right now because he's still under contract to Fox. Is he now going to be in trouble with Fox for going on Twitter?
FOLKENFLIK: Well, so that's the real question, right? Carlson has proclaimed he's going there. Elon Musk, owner of Twitter, very carefully said on Twitter last night, you know, home for free speech, but also, we don't have any arrangement with Carlson yet. Carlson's lawyers have sent note to Fox saying, basically, they breached his contract, and therefore, he's entitled to do this, according to Axios. The real question is, you know, Fox wants to sideline Carlson through the end of the 2024 race by paying him a ton of money. Carlson's saying, I don't need the money; I'm going to go to a new place.
INSKEEP: OK. Dave, thanks so much.
FOLKENFLIK: You bet. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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