Governor's office in Pennsylvania makes a criminal referral in Ohio train derailment

Transcript

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Pennsylvania's attorney general is investigating whether criminal charges are warranted in the train derailment just over the state line in Ohio. Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro blasted Norfolk Southern Railroad yesterday when he visited the site of a derailment site that sent clouds of toxic chemicals into the air over East Palestine.

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JOSH SHAPIRO: The combination of Norfolk Southern's corporate greed, incompetence and lack of care for our residents is absolutely unacceptable to me.

FADEL: Governor Shapiro joins us this morning from Harrisburg. Good morning, Governor. Thanks for being on the program.

SHAPIRO: Good morning, Leila. Thanks for having me.

FADEL: So you believe Norfolk Southern did something criminal here?

SHAPIRO: Well, we made a criminal referral to the office of attorney general. They'll determine whether or not there was criminal activity. What I know is that Norfolk Southern is governed every day not by caring about the communities that they send their trains through, but by corporate greed. And what I've experienced with them since the derailment is just a level of arrogance and incompetence that has contributed to this disaster that people in eastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania are now dealing with.

FADEL: When you say arrogance and incompetence, could you expand on what that looked like?

SHAPIRO: Yeah, I think you can see this play out in two different ways. First, in the immediate hours after the train derailment, when we activated our emergency personnel, as we would do for any type of disaster, the first thing you do is set up what's known, Leila, as a unified command structure. The key there is getting everybody to work together. And we had a terrific unified command structure with my emergency personnel in Pennsylvania and Governor Mike DeWine's emergency personnel in Ohio. Unfortunately, Norfolk Southern chose not to participate in that, which made our lives more difficult and injected more risk into the situation.

In addition to that, they were really unwilling to share their modeling information and accurate information that would have made it easier for us to make the decisions in the immediate aftermath of the derailment. And they failed to present any alternative - and burn that was put forth as the necessary step in the community. Since that time - you'll forgive the expression this early in the morning at NPR - but they've, in effect, I think, just given the middle finger to the good people of Pennsylvania and Ohio...

FADEL: Wow.

SHAPIRO: ...By failing to show up at community meetings, by, really, insulting the community with a lackluster investment in their recovery. And I'm, frankly, sick and tired of the way their CEO has acted like a king as opposed to someone who's contrite and willing to work with the community to get it back up on its feet. So we're holding them accountable in Pennsylvania. We're making sure that this cleanup occurs and that we get western Pennsylvania back in the shape that it was in before. And we will make sure Norfolk Southern pays for every single dollar of the destruction that they caused.

FADEL: Now, I can hear your anger towards Norfolk Southern. It said, though, it's committed to doing what's right for residents. So do you believe that they would do that, that they're going to do that?

SHAPIRO: I don't believe that they would just do that by their own volition. We need to hold them accountable legally. That's why I thought that the announcement yesterday that I participated in from the EPA administrator, using their authority under federal law to hold Norfolk Southern accountable for every dollar...

FADEL: Right.

SHAPIRO: ...Of this remediation and cleanup, is going to be critical. I've spoken, obviously, with the EPA administrator multiple times about this. The president of the United States has reached out multiple times about this. We are all committed to making sure we hold them accountable. I do not believe for a second that Norfolk Southern would do this on their own. I mean, heck, this is the same company that has sadly and successfully lobbied Congress over, you know, multiple years to do away with, you know, safety measures that would cost them a few bucks but might keep the community safer. They, you know, line themselves up with lawyers and lobbyists to escape scrutiny. And I'm sick and tired of it, which is why we're holding them accountable in Pennsylvania.

FADEL: Now, you mentioned the EPA saying you're going to pay for the cleanup. And if you don't pay for it, we're going to do it and make you pay for it. Is that enough to keep them accountable? Does other - do other things need to be done?

SHAPIRO: I think it's Step 1 to get Pennsylvania and Ohio back up on our feet and get us back to the way we were prior to this derailment. Going forward, it's clear that Congress needs to act. They need to put real teeth into some of these laws involving safety of our railways. They need to force Norfolk Southern and the other railroad companies to invest real money in their braking systems, in the security and safety of their trains, into determining - I guess, sort of lowering the bar, if you will, to what is a high hazard train, which would then require those rail companies to notify states like mine when they're passing through so our emergency personnel can be on alert and prepared in the event that there's a disaster. So Step 1 is making sure that this cleanup occurs and Norfolk Southern pays for it. And step two is making sure Congress acts to create better safety in our rail system.

FADEL: And that - is that what needs to change so this doesn't happen again somewhere else?

SHAPIRO: I think that's a really critical step. Governor DeWine - and I think it's important to note, Governor DeWine's a Republican. I'm a Democrat. We're working together on this. I know there's been a lot of noise surrounding this from some outside players and noisemakers. But the reality is, we are working together not just on the cleanup, but we've also discussed presenting ourselves to Congress and letting Congress know the important steps they need to take to make our rails safer. And I think we can both, obviously, speak from experience on this. And I think this will be a bipartisan effort to force Congress to act. And I know the Biden administration wants to act as well. I've spoken to the president about that. And they're prepared to move forward on important safety measures for our rail system.

FADEL: Now, at issue here for residents is, are they safe drinking the water? Are they safe breathing the air, you know, the reports of the fish dying, rashes, headaches? And a lot are skeptical when officials say the water is safe, the air is safe.

SHAPIRO: Right.

FADEL: Should they be skeptical?

SHAPIRO: These are great questions. I think the first thing we need to do is ignore the noise and the conspiracy theories that some continue to put out. And let's focus on the data and the facts. So let me summarize that for you, Leila. In the immediate hours after this train derailment, the EPA, together with environmental officials in Ohio and Pennsylvania, began monitoring the air on both sides of the state border. And we continue to this day to monitor it. We've not seen any concerning readings. And we're providing the raw data to the public.

In addition to that, I've authorized testing of all of the wells on the Pennsylvania side and the public water system to ensure that local residents have the comfort of knowing what's coming out of the tap is safe. We've seen no concerning readings yet, but we're going to continue to test for months and months and months, if not years, to make sure people have confidence in knowing that the air they breathe and the water they drink is safe.

FADEL: Governor Josh Shapiro, thank you so much for your time.

SHAPIRO: Thank you, Leila.

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