Transcript
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Thousands of people in Venezuela have been arrested in ongoing protests after President Nicolas Maduro claimed victory in last week's highly contested election. Security forces controlled by Maduro are calling those protests part of an attempted U.S.-backed coup. But the opposition says it can prove that Edmundo Gonzalez actually carried about 70% of the vote. And the U.S. State Department says Maduro's claimed victory does not reflect the will of the Venezuelan people. Jennie Lincoln is at The Carter Center. She is their lead Venezuela expert and recently returned from an election observation mission in the Venezuelan capital of Caracas. She was there for over a month. Jennie, so what's the conclusion you and your team came to about the integrity of Venezuela's election?
JENNIE LINCOLN: Good morning, and thank you for this opportunity. And I will tell you up front that the Venezuela election did not meet international standards, with a complete lack of transparency of the electoral officials. And that came from our team that was, as you said, over a month, 17 of us from 11 countries. And we covered Caracas and three cities on election day.
MARTÍNEZ: So when you say lack of transparency, what exactly did you not see?
LINCOLN: We did not see the electoral authorities announce a result that was based on any evidence. It was a global number. Maduro 51, Gonzalez 44. End of story. I'd like to share with you how we got there.
MARTÍNEZ: Sure.
LINCOLN: The electoral conditions - what do international observers do? First of all, they don't interfere in the process. For The Carter Center, we were invited by the electoral officials after the Barbados accord, which was signed by the opposition and the government. So we were invited, and it meant that we had three guarantees that we negotiated. First, total access to the electoral process. Second, freedom of movement throughout the country. And third, freedom to speak to the press anytime we want it. Those guarantees are critical for international observation. And in a country under an authoritarian rule, that's very difficult to achieve.
MARTÍNEZ: Did any of those three things happen?
LINCOLN: We had complete access. We had - we moved around the country. We were not accompanied by military forces. We had our own security, and we had the opportunity to speak with reporters and people as we wished. So those three things were honored. What was not honored was the respect of the Venezuelan people to receive the true count of their presidential election on July 28.
MARTÍNEZ: The United Nations says that more than 6 million Venezuelans have fled an economy that was crippled by sanctions in recent years. And other countries have called on Nicolas Maduro to maybe honor the tallies of the votes. How can their numbers be verified?
LINCOLN: First of all, the system is very good. The Venezuelan election system is very good. It's electronic voting and has two fail-safes. The first fail-safe is a tally sheet that is printed at each polling place on the night of the election. And those tally sheets - the results are sent electronically to the electoral authorities. A tally sheet is separated for the electoral authorities. And then every poll watcher, every poll watcher, including the government and opposition, receives a copy of the tally sheets. So not only does the opposition know what happened at 30,026 polling sites - the government political party knows, too. So three people - three entities know what happened on that election night. The government, the government's political party and the opposition know that Edmundo Gonzalez won the election by almost two to one.
MARTÍNEZ: So what does Nicolas Maduro's government say, or what does the president say? Are these things that you bring up with them, and how do they respond?
LINCOLN: After being there a month - after we left, we issued a press release, which said exactly this, that the election did not meet the standards. That report was also sent directly to the electoral authority and to other members of the government, political parties. It was a widespread announcement that The Carter Center said, these elections do not meet electoral standards. And the political parties who participated know that.
MARTÍNEZ: Has Nicolas Maduro's government said anything in response to that? Have they disputed what you have found? Have they come up with their own explanation?
LINCOLN: They have not come up with their own explanation, and that's part of the crisis right now, with countries like Brazil and Colombia and Mexico trying to talk to everyone to understand what happened and then talk with the government. The government has maintained that its report on election night, which, by the way, was delayed almost five hours. There was silence, silence from the electoral authorities. By the time they announced their results, the PSUV, the party of Maduro, had gone to the streets to begin celebrating. And that then prompted after the announcement, the official announcement based on a global number, no backup from any information of the 30,000 polling places. Then the opposition went to the streets the next day on Monday to protest that the election had been robbed from them.
MARTÍNEZ: So what happens in this situation when a government doesn't want to respond or acknowledge what many observers say is not a legitimate election?
LINCOLN: Well, the government is the government, and international observers can only do that. They can only observe and report, but they have no authority to intervene.
MARTÍNEZ: So it just kind of just stays as it is? No recourse at all for people in Venezuela who cast a vote?
LINCOLN: They have recourse, but it's through a court that is dominated by the government.
MARTÍNEZ: Wow. Jennie Lincoln is a senior Latin America adviser at The Carter Center. Jenny, thank you very much.
LINCOLN: Thank you.
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