Transcript
MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
OK, other parts of the world are just waking up to this news, so let's head overseas and get some international reaction to today's big news here from Joe Biden. The author and former BBC foreign correspondent Nick Bryant is on the line now from Sydney, Australia. Hi there, Nick.
NICK BRYANT: Hi. How are you?
KELLY: Hi. I'm doing all right. I'm curious what people make of this where you are. People will just be waking up to this in Australia, across Asia. What's the initial reaction?
BRYANT: I don't think there will be huge surprise internationally because I think after Joe Biden's debate performance and the friendly fire, figuratively speaking, that he's come under since from senior Democratic figures - like Chuck Schumer, like Nancy Pelosi, like Hakeem Jeffries - that his position had become untenable. And I think people were paying very close attention to the reporting at the end of the week that was coming out from media outlets in the states like Axios that this kind of announcement was in the offing, that it could possibly become before the end of the weekend. People were very aware of this. People have been hanging on this U.S. election minute by minute. I've spent the last three weeks in Europe where people have been glued to their phones often in the aftermath of the debate and certainly in the aftermath of that assassination attempt on Donald Trump.
KELLY: Absolutely.
BRYANT: So I don't think this news will come as a great surprise.
KELLY: People listening to you will gather that you track politics here in the U.S. quite closely. I know you have reported from here. You've reported from all over the world. What leaps out at you?
BRYANT: The question I get asked more than any other as somebody who's covered Washington since the Clinton years is, how is it that a country of 330 million people can end up with a choice of Donald Trump versus Joe Biden? - a choice that many people see as between a very elderly old man and a very crazy old man. And I think that many people look on what's happening in America right now and ask, how is it that a country that has so often portrayed itself throughout its history as a beacon of democracy could become what many people regard as somewhat of a dumpster fire at the moment?
The fact that America has become a gerontocracy to many people around the world - I mean, this is a moment, obviously, that it will start to look younger, especially if somebody like Kamala Harris has emerged as the Democratic nominee. But U.S. presidential elections have always been a showcase for democracy. Often, they've shown us what's good about American democracy. I'm thinking in particular of the victory of Kennedy in '60 or the victory of Obama in 2008 or the reelection of Ronal Reagan in 1984. People have looked on this election in a very different light. It has not been a good advertisement for U.S. democracy.
KELLY: Stay with the image of a dumpster fire, which is now prominent in my head. I will put it a little bit more diplomatically and ask about political instability, political uncertainty here in the world's most powerful, richest country. I mean, it's mid-July. We still don't know who's on top of one of the major party tickets. To what extent does the rest of the world watch and worry and wonder that may mean instability, uncertainty everywhere?
BRYANT: Yeah, I think that's the worry about this election. If Donald Trump did return to the White House, I mean, one of the great concerns in Australia, for instance, is, what would happen to this nuclear submarine deal that Australia has entered into with America and the Biden administration, the AUKUS deal? In Britain, I think there's a new Labour government there that is deeply worried about the prospect of a Trump 2.0 presidency and what that would - impact would have on Ukraine.
KELLY: Oh.
BRYANT: You know, J.D. Vance, the vice president nominee has already said, I don't care what happens in Ukraine. And that is deeply worrying for America's allies. America's power has always been built in the post-war years on the strength of its alliance system. And now so many countries around the world are asking, is America still a reliable ally? And that is - struck me in the aftermath of Biden's announcement, how many leaders like Anthony Albanese here, Labor leader - Labor prime minister, Australia, Keir Starmer, a Labour prime minister in Britain have been very careful. They haven't heaped too much praise on Joe Biden because, I suspect, they fear that he might be superseded in a few months' time by (inaudible).
KELLY: Just quickly, Nick, in the minute we have left - if it's Kamala Harris - and we don't know that yet, but so far, no other prominent Democrats have raised their hands. If it is Harris, there's continuity. She was already on the Biden/Harris ticket, obviously. She has not had a huge international portfolio. Is she well known? What's her reputation on the world stage?
BRYANT: I think a lot of people when she first emerged as the vice presidential nominee thought that maybe she was the female Barack Obama. That's a term that she has avoided herself. But I think people realize now that she hasn't got those kind of once-in-a-generation skills that he does. She's not the sort of same charismatic figure that she (ph) is. And I mean, the question for Kamala Harris, of course, is, can she win the states that you need to win to win the presidency?
KELLY: The battleground states, indeed.
BRYANT: And that's going to be a difficulty going forward.
KELLY: Journalist and author Nick Bryant. His latest book is "The Forever War: America's Unending Conflict With Itself." We have found him in Sydney, Australia. Nick Bryant, thanks.
BRYANT: My pleasure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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