It seems like Project 2025 is everywhere. But what is it?
Former President Donald Trump wants to distance himself from Project 2025, while the Biden campaign is doing everything it can to tie Trump to the conservative plan to transform the American government.
“I know nothing about Project 2025,” Trump wrote on his social media website Truth Social. “I have no idea who is behind it. I disagree with some of the things they’re saying and some of the things they’re saying are absolutely ridiculous and abysmal. Anything they do, I wish them luck, but I have nothing to do with them.”
The 900-page plan, pulled together by the prominent conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation, serves as a conservative guidebook to expand presidential powers and overhaul the federal workforce so that it can be replaced with partisan loyalists.
What is in Project 2025?
It’s not Trump’s plan, but it is a plan made for Trump, who leaders have described as the “embodiment” of their efforts. And it outlines legal pathways Trump could take to implement some of his biggest policy goals.
Project 2025 also outlines transition and recruitment plans to help ensure Trump does not repeat some of the mistakes made early in his first administration when his team was caught unprepared to staff and take over the government from the outgoing Obama administration.
“If we learned anything from President Trump's 2016 presidential transition effort, it wasn't as smooth as others,” said Ryan Williams, who worked for Mitt Romney on his 2012 presidential campaign. “Usually, presidential campaigns have fully functioning transition operations ready to go.”
While Trump has sought to deny a connection, there is plenty of overlap between Project 2025 and his agenda.
It proposes mass deportations of millions of undocumented immigrants. So does Trump.
Trump has called for cuts to the federal agencies like the Department of Education. Project 2025 calls for its elimination.
But, there are also differences.
On abortion, for example, Project 2025 goes farther with restrictions than Trump has said he would go.
Trump blasted the plan last week, days after the president of the Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts, warned of the potential for political violence.
“We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be,” Roberts said on the conservative podcast The War Room.
How have Democrats responded to it?
Democrats pounced, immediately seeing an opportunity to point to Roberts' comments as an example of the dangers of a second Trump administration.
“248 years ago tomorrow America declared independence from a tyrannical king, and now Donald Trump and his allies want to make him one at our expense,” James Singer, a spokesperson for the Biden campaign said ahead of the Fourth of July.
The campaign has also launched ads and created a website tying Trump to Project 2025.
Biden got some political help from Taraji P. Henson, who warned about Project 2025 — on stage — when she hosted the BET awards.
“Pay attention,” she said. “It’s not a secret: Look it up. They are attacking our most vulnerable citizens. The Project 2025 plan is not a game. Look it up!”
The critical focus on Project 2025 has been a small sliver of good political news for the Biden team in an otherwise rough period of endless attention on Biden’s bad debate performance and questions about whether he would remain the Democratic nominee.
The Trump campaign continues to push back.
Senior Trump adviser Danielle Alvarez pointed out that the campaign has been saying for months that these outside groups don't represent Trump. She stressed that the Trump team has its own policy proposals, Agenda 47, and the Republican platform.
The Heritage Foundation emphasized this week that Project 2025 doesn’t speak for any candidate and is only offering recommendations, and that it is "ultimately up to that president, who we believe will be President Trump, to decide which recommendations to implement."
Alvarez also responded to Democrats' focus on the project, accusing Biden of trying to distract from questions about his mental acuity and staying power.
“And so Democrats are desperate,” she said. “And they're throwing a Hail Mary attempting to talk about outside groups as though they are President Trump's policy positions.”
Transcript
SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
Former President Donald Trump wants to distance himself from Project 2025. That's the controversial playbook for a new conservative government drawn up by the Heritage Foundation.
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Trump wrote on his social media website that he knows nothing about the project and that he thinks they're proposing ridiculous things. Meanwhile, the Biden campaign is doing everything it can to tie Trump and Project 2025 together.
PFEIFFER: NPR's Franco Ordoñez has been covering the Trump campaign. He joins us now in the studio. Hi, Franco.
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Hey, Sacha.
PFEIFFER: What should we know about Project 2025?
ORDOÑEZ: I mean, the heart of it is a 900-page pro-Trump guidebook that outlines how to expand his presidential powers. It details plans to gut the civil service or, as Trump says, demolish the deep state and reshape the American government with more loyal federal workers. It's also a way for Trump to kind of not repeat some of the mistakes made during the early days of his first administration, when he didn't have the plans, the personnel or infrastructure ready to stand up a new government after his inauguration.
I spoke with Ryan Williams, who worked for Mitt Romney on his 2012 presidential campaign. He put it this way.
RYAN WILLIAMS: We had professional leaders who had served in cabinet positions involved in our transition. That didn't happen with Trump, and his transition was plagued by infighting.
ORDOÑEZ: But, you know, he is distancing himself - Trump, that is - especially after the head of Heritage made comments that raised some eyebrows about a second American Revolution and warning it could remain bloodless - this is a quote - "remain bloodless if the left allows it."
PFEIFFER: Yet, as we said earlier, Trump said he knows nothing - that's his word - nothing about Project 2025. But there is some overlap with this and his agenda.
ORDOÑEZ: Yes, there is. I mean, this is not Trump's plan, but it is a plan for Trump. In many ways, what it does is take some of Trump's biggest policy goals and kind of outlines a legal pathway to execute them, such as on overhauling the federal workforce. It also offers guidance on Trump's proposed mass deportations of millions of undocumented immigrants.
And there are some differences, of course. On abortion, for example, Project 2025 goes much further on restrictions than Trump has said he would go. But another important point, Sacha, is that - the people involved. And many of those are allies, loyalists, and they worked in the past administration.
PFEIFFER: Project 2025 could present an opportunity for the Biden campaign, especially at a time where the campaign is in its own turmoil. What's the campaign dealing - how is it approaching it?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of been one of the few slivers of good political news for Biden in what's been really a tough two weeks after his bad debate. I mean, the campaign also got some help from actress Taraji P. Henson, who warned about Project 2025 onstage when she hosted the BET Awards. You know, the campaign is blasting messages about it. It launched ads and even created a website tying Trump to Project 2025.
PFEIFFER: What is the Trump campaign saying about that?
ORDOÑEZ: Well, they're pushing back, and they're pushing back hard. I mean, I spoke with senior adviser Danielle Alvarez, who said the campaign has been saying for months that these outside groups do not speak for them. She accused Biden of trying to distract from questions about his mental acuity and whether he'll even stay in the race.
DANIELLE ALVAREZ: And so Democrats are desperate. And they're throwing a Hail Mary, attempting to talk about outside groups as though they're President Trump's policy positions.
ORDOÑEZ: She stressed that the campaign has its own policy proposals, Agenda 47 and the Republican platform, which is all true. But it is also true that those involved in Project 2025 are very much intertwined with Trump world, and some of them are likely to be back helping Trump again should he return to office.
PFEIFFER: That's NPR's Franco Ordoñez. Thank you.
ORDOÑEZ: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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