Jake Sullivan says the U.S. is engaging with allies, and Russia, on the space threat
It's been a busy week for news involving the U.S., Ukraine and Russia.
It started with the Senate passing a bill that would send billions of dollars of aid to Ukraine, as well as Israel and Taiwan, despite warnings from House Republicans that they would not bring such legislation to their own floor.
Then an unusual statement from the Republican chair of the House Intelligence Committee about a national security threat prompted the Biden administration to confirm that Russia is working on a weapon that has the potential to threaten satellites.
National security adviser Jake Sullivan met with a group of lawmakers in the House of Representatives on Thursday to brief them on the issue. Moments before he dialed in to speak with NPR's Morning Edition about it on Friday, reports emerged from Russian authorities that opposition figure Alexei Navalny had died in prison after falling ill.
NPR has since confirmed Navalny's death at age 47 in a remote Russian prison, where he was serving a decades-long sentence for charges including extremism.
Sullivan described it as a "terrible tragedy" in an interview Morning Edition's Steve Inskeep.
"Given the Russian government's long and sordid history of doing harm to its opponents, it raises real and obvious questions about what happened here," he added.
In his first one-on-one interview since briefing lawmakers, Sullivan spoke with Inskeep about Russia's anti-satellite weapon, the continued need for U.S. aid to Ukraine and the state of the Israel-Gaza war.
Sullivan says the U.S. is responding to Russia's anti-satellite weapon
Sullivan is fresh off briefing lawmakers on Capitol Hill about the Russian security threat, which the Biden administration has been referring to as an "anti-satellite capability."
House Intelligence Committee Chair Mike Turner, R-Ohio, drew attention to it on Wednesday, when he publicly called on Biden to declassify information "concerning a national security threat." Sullivan previously said he was surprised by Turner's decision, which he reiterated in his interview with NPR.
"I had put on the books days ago a meeting with House leadership on this to be able to talk to them privately," he said. "When we deal with serious threats like this that involve highly sensitive intelligence we like to do so behind closed doors."
Sullivan said that he would have liked the situation to play out differently. But he did not question Turner's motives for going public, as some of his fellow Republican lawmakers have, instead agreeing that this is an issue Congress should take seriously.
The White House said Thursday that while the development of such a capability is troubling, there is no immediate safety risk, nor could the capability "cause physical destruction here on Earth." But it could threaten astronauts in low orbit, as well as interfere with systems used for communication, transportation, meteorology and financial transactions.
What then is the difference between a capability and a weapon? Basically, Sullivan said, officials are trying to protect intelligence sources and methods by not saying too much publicly — and "anti-satellite capability" is the language that the intelligence community has approved.
"But an anti-satellite capability, of course, means something that the Russians could use to go against satellites," Sullivan added. "So if people wanted to characterize it using a different word of course they could do so."
The U.S., Russia and China already have the capability to attack satellites, but the use of nuclear weapons in space is banned by the Outer Space Treaty of 1967. When asked if the deployment of this Russian capability would violate that treaty, Sullivan declined to say.
"It would violate long standing international obligations of Russia, but I can't go further than that today given the limitations on what I can share," he said.
Sullivan described his meeting with lawmakers as "deeply substantive," saying it covered the intelligence itself as well as what steps the Biden administration is taking to protect the American people.
"It was a bipartisan meeting," he said. "People focused — both Democrats and Republicans — on the substance, not on the politics or the public Sturm und Drang [turmoil], and I think we emerged with a good understanding of the way forward."
Sullivan said the U.S. is engaging with countries around the world, as well as Russia itself, "to try to ensure that things do not proceed in a way that end up destabilizing international peace and security."
He also made the case for aid to Ukraine, as the Senate bill hangs in the balance
Also present at the meeting was House Speaker Mike Johnson, who signaled earlier this week that he wouldn't bring the Senate's $95 billion bipartisan foreign aid bill to a vote in the House. His reason, he said in a statement, is that it lacked border security provisions.
Just days earlier, Senate Republicans blocked a bill that included both the foreign aid and border security measures that the House GOP had asked for months ago, after mounting pressure from former President Donald Trump. Democrats say that was a political calculation, aimed at prolonging chaos on the border to help Trump campaign on immigration in his reelection bid.
The Senate's foreign aid bill is now effectively stuck in the House. Sullivan said that Johnson told him directly on Thursday that he would like to see a vote on the aid.
"How that happens, when that happens, that's a matter of enormous interest to myself, to President Biden and to the Ukrainian people," Sullivan said. "Because every day that passes that we are not providing this aid to Ukraine they have less ammunition to defend themselves, less capability to take Russian missiles out of the sky that are terrorizing Ukrainian cities and less of the kinds of tools and resources they need to defend [Ukrainian] sovereignty and territory."
Nearly two years and billions of dollars into Russia's war in Ukraine, U.S. support for continued military assistance has dwindled. Many Republican voters, and House Republicans, are increasingly opposed to sending more aid.
The Biden administration has stressed that U.S. aid is instrumental in arming Ukrainians, helping them push back against Russian forces in what has essentially become a war of attrition.
Sullivan said U.S. support is "indispensable," adding there are certain resources and capabilities that only it can provide for Ukraine. But he acknowledged it is "not inconsistent with asking Europeans to step up and do more," acknowledging that European allies have contributed a substantial amount of assistance.
Earlier this month, the European Union approved $54 billion for Ukraine over the next three years. Ahead of a meeting of NATO defense secretaries in Brussels this week, NATO Secretary General Jans Stoltenberg urged the U.S. House to pass an aid bill as "an investment in our own security."
Sullivan made a similar argument.
"It is an obligation we have to to help defend a people fighting for their freedom, to help support European security, and to avert a situation where if [Russian President Vladimir] Putin wins in Ukraine, all of Europe is in threat," he added. "And the likelihood that the U.S. gets dragged into a conflict goes up."
Sullivan says the U.S. hasn't yet seen Israel's plan to protect civilians in Rafah
Meanwhile, in the Middle East, mediators met in Cairo this week for another round of talks about a potential cease-fire in Gaza and the release of the more than 100 Israel hostages being held there by Hamas.
The high-stakes discussions started after Israel signaled it will launch a ground invasion in Rafah, a city on the southern tip of Gaza where more than 1.4 million Palestinians are sheltering in cramped conditions.
Biden pushed back on the potential operation in a call with Israeli President Benjamin Netanyahu over the weekend, telling him it should not proceed "without a credible and executable plan for ensuring the safety of and support for" the people seeking shelter there.
Sullivan said such a plan would include measures to protect civilians, move them to safety and ensure that they have access to basic necessities. He said the U.S. has not seen that plan yet, though the Israelis have insisted they will not proceed without one.
"That is an ongoing conversation between us and them," Sullivan added.
More broadly, Sullivan acknowledged that Biden and Netanyahu do not see eye to eye on many issues, with each holding their own long-standing position.
That fissure has been increasingly evident in recent weeks, with Biden describing Israel's offensive as "over the top," sanctioning West Bank settlers who attack Palestinians and pressing for a path to Palestinian statehood, which Netanyahu has rejected.
Sullivan stressed that Biden believes Israel has the right to go after Hamas, the terrorist group responsible for the "worst slaughter of the Jewish people since the Holocaust," but must do so in a way that protects civilians and respects international law.
He said Biden has raised those concerns with Netanyahu.
And he also credited Biden's interventions, and American diplomacy more broadly, with facilitating things like the temporary cease-fire in late November and the flow of humanitarian assistance to Gaza through its Rafah border crossing, though he acknowledged the U.S. would like to see more.
"The Israeli government's making its own decisions about how it proceeds, and then the United States makes decisions about how we respond," he said. "And that's how it's been since the beginning. That's how it will continue to be. And we will work closely with other partners as well to make sure that we are both helping Israel defend itself against the very real threats it faces and stand up for our principles."
The broadcast interview was produced by Ben Abrams and edited by Jan Johnson and Lisa Thomson.
9(MDAxODcyMTgzMDEyMTgxMTY5NjYxN2I4OQ004))
Transcript
STEVE INSKEEP, BYLINE: Russian authorities say Alexei Navalny is dead. The Russian opposition leader had been serving a long sentence in a penal colony in Russia's arctic region. A statement from a regional office of the Russian prison service says Navalny fell ill after a walk and lost consciousness. A Kremlin spokesperson says officials have informed President Vladimir Putin, the leader whom Navalny challenged. His supporters say they have not confirmed the death independently. Earlier today on MORNING EDITION, we shared the news with President Biden's national security adviser, Jake Sullivan.
JAKE SULLIVAN: Given the Russian government's long and sordid history of doing harm to its opponents, it raises real and obvious questions about what happened here.
INSKEEP: Jake Sullivan was on NPR to discuss several developments relating to Russia. Another was the news of a Russian anti-satellite capability. Let's hear that conversation.
I want to remind people that you met several House leaders yesterday, including Mike Turner, the committee chairman of intelligence, who first called public attention this week to some kind of threat. You had said you were a bit surprised by Turner's public warning about this, so I could imagine this meeting being awkward to discuss this satellite capability. Was it awkward?
SULLIVAN: It was deeply substantive. I mean, we dove right in to what is a serious matter of national security concern. We went into the intelligence. And even more importantly, we talked about the steps the administration is taking to deal with this and to ensure the security of the American people. It was a bipartisan meeting. People focused - both Democrats and Republicans - on the substance, not on the politics or the public sturm and drang. And I think we emerged with a good understanding of the way forward. But as I said publicly, I was surprised about the public statements relating to this threat because I had put on the books days ago a meeting with House leadership on this to be able to talk to them privately. And when we deal with serious threats like this that are - that involve highly sensitive intelligence, we like to do so behind closed doors.
INSKEEP: The White House called this an anti-satellite capability, not an anti-satellite weapon. What's the difference?
SULLIVAN: Well, it's - we've been placed in a somewhat awkward position because of the public disclosures. We're trying to protect sources and methods, meaning that we don't want our intelligence sources to be burned by saying too much publicly. And that requires that we are very careful with our language. So the language that we have used, anti-satellite capability, has been approved by the intelligence community, is the way that we are characterizing the program. And we have to be careful in how much we share about the specific nature of the threat. But an anti-satellite capability, of course, means something that the Russians could use to go against satellites. So if people wanted to characterize it using a different word, of course they could do so.
INSKEEP: Would this capability, if deployed, violate the 1967 Outer Space Treaty that bans nuclear weapons in space?
SULLIVAN: It would violate long-standing international obligations of Russia. But I can't go further than that today, given the limitations on what I can share.
INSKEEP: OK. Critics of Chairman Turner have accused him of releasing this information because of his own motives. They've said he wants to reauthorize an intelligence surveillance act that's been stuck in the House, or they've said that he wants to make the case for funding Ukraine in its war against Russia, which some Republicans oppose. I'm just curious, does this news, in fact, help make the case that Russia is a dangerous enemy that needs to be opposed?
SULLIVAN: Well, first, I want to be clear that I do not question Chairman Turner's motives. I think he believes that this is a serious matter of national security concern, and he wanted to call attention to the members of Congress on it. Obviously, I would have liked to have seen it unfold in a different way, but that doesn't go to the core question of motives. I do believe that this is something that we have to and are and have from the moment that we gained this information, we have to take it seriously. We have to work with allies and partners on it. This is something that concerns not just the United States but countries around the world. And so we are actively engaging with those countries and directly with Russia to try to ensure that things do not proceed in a way that end up destabilizing international peace and security.
INSKEEP: You were in the room with Speaker Mike Johnson, who was voted against U.S. aid for Ukraine in the past. Some members of his conference totally oppose it. He's turned aside a Senate bill that includes aid for Ukraine, and it's stuck in the House. Do you feel any assurance that Johnson is willing to allow a House vote on Ukraine aid at all?
SULLIVAN: Speaker Johnson told me directly yesterday that he would like to see a vote on Ukraine aid, as well as the other elements of aid and the supplemental for Israel, for the Indo-Pacific and so forth. How that happens, when that happens, that is a matter of enormous interest to myself, to President Biden and to the Ukrainian people because every day that passes that we are not providing this aid to Ukraine, they have less ammunition to defend themselves, less capability to take Russian missiles out of the sky that are terrorizing Ukrainian cities and less of the kinds of tools and resources they need to defend Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. So we have got to see this happen fast. And I was very much emphatic and direct with the speaker and with all the members I saw yesterday that we would like to see a vote on a bipartisan basis, building on a 70-vote resounding approval of this measure in the Senate.
INSKEEP: There are Republicans who've spoken on this program who have said, hey, Europe should step up. They should be paying more. I'm curious if that's possible for this reason - Ukraine started the war with a lot of old, Soviet-made, Russian-made gear. They've transitioned to a lot of U.S.-made weapons, in part. Is it essential - is it absolutely indispensable that the U.S. continue to aid them now because of the way that they are armed?
SULLIVAN: U.S support is indispensable, but that's not inconsistent with asking the Europeans to step up and do more, which we've done and which they have responded to. In fact, a substantial amount of the military assistance going to Ukraine right now is coming from our European allies and partners. We've rallied a coalition of 50 nations to make major contributions in weapons systems and other capabilities. But to your question, there is no substitute for the kinds of resources and the types of capabilities that only the United States can provide. It is an obligation we have to help defend the people fighting for their freedom, to help support European security and to help avert a situation where if Putin wins in Ukraine, all of Europe is in threat, and the likelihood that the U.S. gets dragged into a conflict goes up.
INSKEEP: Jake Sullivan is President Biden's national security adviser, and we want you to know that we've also been talking with him about Israel, and we'll hear that elsewhere on NPR. Mr. Sullivan, thanks so much.
SULLIVAN: Thank you for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
300x250 Ad
300x250 Ad