Transcript
SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
TikTok sued the U.S. government back in May over a new law that would force the company's Chinese owner to sell the popular app or face a ban in the United States. Last night, court filings in the case came from the U.S. Justice Department. NPR justice correspondent Ryan Lucas has gone through them all night. Ryan, thanks for being with us.
RYAN LUCAS, BYLINE: Thanks for having me, Scott.
SIMON: And while it's fresh on your mind, remind us of the details of the lawsuit.
LUCAS: Well, first off, I think it's important to remind people that the law was passed by Congress on an overwhelming bipartisan basis, and it was signed by President Biden. This was back in April. Now, as for TikTok's lawsuit, TikTok says that this law is unconstitutional. And its main argument here is that it says the law violates the First Amendment because, the company says, it would effectively silence the 170 million Americans or so who use the app to share videos, express their opinions on all sorts of things, including, of course, politics. TikTok also says the choice that the law gives the company between divestment and a ban is really no choice at all. TikTok says this just isn't possible commercially. It's not possible technologically or legally, either.
SIMON: And what does the U.S. Justice Department say in response?
LUCAS: In its filing, the Justice Department defends this law, says it is necessary because of long-running national security concerns about TikTok. And it rejects TikTok's claims that the statute is unconstitutional. The department says the law takes aim at national security concerns, not speech. And it says the company itself doesn't have First Amendment rights. As for any impact on the millions of Americans who create content on TikTok, department officials say that is just incidental. Those content creators are not being regulated, and they also don't have a First Amendment right to use TikTok in particular, as opposed to any other social media platform.
SIMON: And how does the Justice Department address the national security concerns?
LUCAS: Well, it's interesting. It frames this very much within the geopolitical rivalry between the United States and China. The department says because of TikTok's incredible reach in the U.S., China's government could use the app to push Beijing's geopolitical agenda. And that, of course, for the U.S. is a massive national security threat. The department says there are two main concerns here - data collection and what it says is content manipulation. The department says TikTok collects a ton of sensitive data on U.S. users. That includes precise locations, viewing habits, private messages, all the contacts on your phone, even those that don't use TikTok, the department says.
And under Chinese law, Chinese companies are required to turn over sensitive data to China's government when it asks for it and to do so in secret. And on the content manipulation side, the concern is that China could use TikTok to promote disinformation in the U.S. or to stoke social divisions. The department also filed sworn declarations from senior national security officials, and those say that TikTok and its parent company have manipulated content on their platforms in the past, including at the direction of China's government, and that TikTok collected data on U.S. users' views on sensitive topics - things like gun control, abortion and then also religion.
SIMON: Ryan, didn't TikTok propose some measures to try and satisfy the national security concerns that wouldn't involve selling the company?
LUCAS: They did. They did. There were actually several years of talks between the U.S. government and TikTok to try to address these national security concerns. One proposal that TikTok put forward, in fact, was to separate its American operations from its Chinese parent company. But the department says TikTok's proposals ultimately fell short. It says TikTok's U.S. operations couldn't really be walled off from Chinese influence from its Chinese parent company and that U.S. user data would continue to flow to China so that even under these proposals, the national security risks remain. But look, this is a very big, very complex case. There are, as we've said, national security implications. There are free speech interests. The stakes are incredibly high. Very thorny issues, and ultimately, of course, this is going to be up to the courts to settle.
SIMON: NPR justice correspondent Ryan Lucas, thanks so much.
LUCAS: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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