Macron comments raise questions about Europe's allegiance to the U.S. and Taiwan
French President Emmanuel Macron drew consternation on both sides of the Atlantic with a recent interview in which he questioned Europe's allegiance to the United States.
Macron spoke to journalists from Politico Europe and the French newspaper Les Echos, saying that "the great risk" Europe faces is that it "gets caught up in crises that are not ours, which prevents it from building its strategic autonomy," especially when it comes to the U.S.'s escalating tensions with China over Taiwan. In the interview, he suggested that the "worst thing" would be to "take our cue from the U.S. agenda and a Chinese overreaction."
Elected officials in both the U.S. and Europe criticized Macron's comments, which were made Friday before China launched combat exercises around Taiwan in response to last week's visit to the U.S. by the Taiwanese president..
The Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China (IPAC) said in a statement that Macron's comments are "severely out of touch" with sentiment across European leadership: "You do not speak for Europe," it said.
Noah Barkin, a senior advisor with the China practice of the research provider Rhodium Group, calls Macron's remarks "concerning" from a U.S. perspective in a conversation with Michel Martin on NPR's Morning Edition.
"I don't think that Macron's messages necessarily reflect the European consensus on China," he said.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Interview highlights
On Macron's comments as cause for concern
Anyone who watched the trip, Macron's interactions with Xi Jinping and the messages he sent afterwards in a number of interviews were concerning I think from a U.S. perspective. But I think one needs to remember that France is only one of 27 EU countries and there are many other countries who think differently.
On European criticism of Macron's remarks
I don't think you're going to see European leaders come out and sort of condemn or criticize Macron in public. We have seen a number of senior German officials, for example, come out and criticize Macron... [but] we're going to have to see how this plays out. I think we're going to have intense discussions over the coming months within the EU about China policy.
On Macron's call for more strategic autonomy
France has for a long time promoted this idea of strategic autonomy, and that started really in earnest during the Trump administration. There was a concern as much about the U.S. as about China sort of forcing decisions on Europe.
On relations between the U.S. and France
I think looking ahead, France and the U.S. got over the dispute over AUKUS, the nuclear submarine deal between the U.S., U.K., and Australia. Europe and the U.S. have gotten over the chaotic pullout from Afghanistan. So my sense is that this is certainly concerning, but it's something that Europe and the U.S. can get over.
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Transcript
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Now to Europe, where French President Emmanuel Macron is questioning Europe's transatlantic allegiance. In an interview Monday, Macron said the EU's greatest risk is, quote, "to get caught up in crises that are not ours," end quote. This was in reference to increased tensions between the U.S. and China over Taiwan. Macron warned his fellow Europeans to not blindly follow America's agenda. U.S and European politicians have pushed back against those comments, but the question remains about where Europe fits in with the growing dominance of the U.S. and China. We wanted to hear more about this, so we've called Noah Barkin in Berlin. He is a senior adviser at Rhodium Group and focuses on transatlantic China policy. Noah, welcome. Thanks for joining us.
NOAH BARKIN: Good to be here.
MARTIN: So Macron made his remarks following a meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping. How concerned should the U.S. be about that?
BARKIN: Well, I think there is some reason for concern. Anyone who watched the trip, Macron's interactions with Xi Jinping and the messages he sent afterwards in a number of interviews were concerning, I think, from a U.S. perspective. But I think one needs to remember that France is only one of 27 EU countries, and there are many other countries who think differently. I don't think that Macron's messages necessarily reflect the European consensus on China.
MARTIN: So I was going to ask you about that, because Republican Senator Marco Rubio asked, in response to Macron's remarks, whether he was speaking for himself or for the whole of Europe. You're saying perhaps not. So tell me, how are other European leaders reacting to this?
BARKIN: Well, I don't think you're going to see European leaders come out and sort of condemn or criticize Macron in public. We have seen a number of senior German officials, for example, come out and criticize Macron - members of the German parliament. But, yeah, it's going to - we're going to have to see how this plays out. I think we're going to have intense discussions over the coming months within the EU about China policy. The European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, who was in Beijing with Macron, gave an important speech about 10 days ago on China, signaling that she wants to have a more intense discussion about China policy. And I think that's going to happen in the coming months. And we'll see how much support from Macron there is.
MARTIN: So - but it isn't the first time that Macron has called for more strategic autonomy of the European bloc. So I have two questions about that. How would you describe the transatlantic relationship between the U.S. and France at this moment? And what is Europe's position in the - in this growing tension between the U.S. and China?
BARKIN: Yeah. Well, I mean, France has, for a long time, promoted this idea of strategic autonomy, and that started really in earnest during the Trump administration. There was a concern about - as much about the U.S. as about China sort of forcing decisions on Europe. So Macron pushed back against that. This is also in the tradition of Charles de Gaulle, who, after World War II, was also pushing for a - sort of a France first line. So strategic autonomy is something that - people have different views on this in Europe. I think, looking ahead, France and the U.S. got over the dispute over AUKUS, this nuclear submarine deal between the U.S., U.K. and Australia. Europe and the U.S. have gotten over the chaotic pullout from Afghanistan. So my sense is that this is certainly concerning, but it's something that Europe and the U.S. can get over.
MARTIN: That's Noah Barkin. He's a senior adviser at Rhodium Group and a visiting senior fellow in the Asia Program at the German Marshall Fund of the United States. Thanks so much.
BARKIN: Good to be here.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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