A note from Wild Card host Rachel Martin: Michael Shannon's first role in a big movie was as a young newlywed in Groundhog Day. It's a small part, and his big moment comes when Bill Murray's character hands him a couple tickets to the local Wrestlemania event, and Shannon goes berserk with glee. And I'm daring you to go back and watch that scene and try to take your eyes off him. There is something in Michael Shannon's eyes that makes it impossible to look away. And it's no small thing to do that when sharing a scene with Bill Murray.
It's like that in every movie he's in. The 2008 movie Revolutionary Road stars Kate Winslet and Leo DiCaprio — two of the biggest names in the business — but Michael Shannon steals every scene he's in.
His unintentional thievery continues … in the 2016 film Nocturnal Animals, or the HBO show Boardwalk Empire — and he was hands down the best thing about the Hulu show Nine Perfect Strangers. I could go on. His eyes, yes. And his ability to rage on screen is unmatched in my opinion. But what really pulls you into one of his performances is the tenderness underneath it all. To occupy both those emotional places simultaneously, well that's why none of us can look away.
Michael Shannon is turning his own eyes behind the camera in his newest project. It's a movie called Eric LaRue and it's his directorial debut.
This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly-selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.
Question 1: What do you admire about your teenage self?
Michael Shannon: Oh, what a lovely question. Well, I was a survivor, you know. I'd, you know, I'd say the years from like 12 to 16 were a real gauntlet.
But I got through it. And in that period of time is when I started getting into acting. And I guess I had some guts to get into that, you know, with people that I didn't really know very well. Just showing up and auditioning for the school play or auditioning to be on the speech team or whatever and getting little opportunities to do that.
And then after I got out of high school, I was still a teenager and I was in Chicago and I started going down into the city and auditioning for plays in the city and started getting parts in very small, like, storefront theater productions. And that took a fair amount of guts, I think.
Rachel Martin: It does take a lot of courage. To stand up on a stage and try to inhabit another character at that age takes guts.
Shannon: Yeah, well, I think maybe I didn't feel like I had much to lose, you know? I was kind of a loner, I guess, when I was a kid. I was kind of awkward to begin with. It didn't really matter, I guess, at the end of the day, whether they thought I was good or not, it didn't, it really didn't make a difference so —
Martin: You were able to detach yourself from, "Did the audience like what I did?" — which is pretty mature to have that revelation as a teenager. Is that still something that you're like, "Yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm good."
Shannon: Well, I don't know. I mean, a lot of these projects are a lot of work. You put a lot into them and it can't help but smart a little bit if nobody pays any attention. But I've been doing this now for, geez, almost about 35 years. So yeah, I'm pretty — I've gotten rave reviews, I've got terrible reviews. I've gotten indifferent reviews. It's kind of, I've seen fire and I've seen rain.
Question 2: What does age teach you about love?
Shannon: Oh my God. Oh, dear.
Martin: Oh no. Is that a good "oh my God" or a bad one?
Shannon: No, it just moved me. They're very linked obviously. I think when you're young, love can be very self-serving. You want love from other people. You want to have love. It's something you want for yourself because it feels, you know, wonderful to feel like you're loved.
And then as you get older, you realize that it's probably ultimately more important to love others regardless of what you get in return. It becomes hopefully less transactional and more just a state of being, you know? Which is — can be hard to accept.
It's actually kind of going back to that place that I was at when I was younger, where I was, you know, OK being alone — but with a new, with more, I don't know, more wisdom, some sort of wisdom that I've accrued along the way, hopefully.
Martin: A thing I've learned as you get old about love, is that it's just you. It's all you got, actually, is you. And if you can't be okay with you, then it's harder to love people without expectation or attachment or consequence. And that's hard. I don't think that comes naturally to any of us, is that recognition and being able to then take people where they're at — love without expecting some reciprocity.
Shannon: Yeah. Well, and it's liberating in a way, if you can really do it in an honest, authentic way. It's actually very freeing. But it, unfortunately, seems to be something you can't get to without experiencing a fair amount of pain.
Question 3: Was there a bedrock truth in your life that you found out wasn't true?
Shannon: I don't think so. I've always thought that life was very, you know, chaotic and kind of unreliable. I guess the most bedrock truth I could claim to have is that, you know, change is the only reality. But it does actually seem to be true.
Martin: Are you comfortable in that?
Shannon: Sometimes I am. Sometimes I'm not. But I can't imagine it any other way. You know, when you act, you create these little societies or civilizations to create some piece of art. And then you finish and they disappear. And it's kind of like the rhythm of my life. And there's certain relationships that carry on through those. Or people that you work with on multiple occasions. But for the most part, you get very accustomed to things not being stable or things changing.
Martin: How does having a family play into that? Is that a constant for you?
Shannon: That is, yeah. Particularly my daughters. I mean, that's the one thing that won't change — I love them very much and I always will. And they're my favorite people. And I'm fascinated by them. And if they're anything like me, there will probably be a period of time where I don't interact with them very much, you know?
Martin: Are you preparing yourself for that?
Shannon: Yeah. Well, my 16-year-old is already a very cosmopolitan young woman. But she still makes time for me now and then. Yeah, but she's so healthy. I mean, it's all so healthy and it's exactly what should be happening.
Martin: But that's a great thing because you've had a different experience with your parents. And I imagine it informed your choices about how you wanted to raise kids and how you wanted to be a parent.
Shannon: Yeah, I get uncomfortable taking too much credit for it. I definitely think there was some step forward. But you know, I also make tons of mistakes just like everybody.
Martin: Nah. I don't believe it. Me either.
Shannon: You heard it here on NPR.
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