Sen. Joe Manchin on why he can't endorse Trump, but isn't sold on Biden
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WASHINGTON, DC - FEBRUARY 12: U.S. Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) leaves the Senate chamber after a live quorum call at the U.S. Capitol.Alex Wong / Getty Images -
Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., talks to reporters between votes at the U.S. Capitol.Chip Somodevilla / Getty Images
At 76, West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin waves off the concerns of some of his colleagues about a candidate's age and how it might affect their ability to carry out the responsibilities of office.
"I don't look at age," the Democratic senator told NPR's Michel Martin. "I look at [candidates] person by person. And with Joe Biden, every time I've been with him, we've talked, I've had no problem whatsoever."
He is, however, reluctant to back the president in the 2024 election.
"I'm hoping that the Joe Biden that I know, the Joe Biden that I've known for a long time will come back," Manchin told Morning Edition.
As a self-described "conservative Democrat," Manchin has frequently played spoiler to some of Biden's key legislative initiatives — in 2021 he refused to support the Biden administration's Build Back Better bill, even after the White House made multiple concessions in an effort to assuage his concerns. He similarly withheld his vote from Biden's federal voting rights, climate-change agendas and tax reform policies by refusing to join with fellow Democrats in an evenly divided Senate.
"I can tell you it's difficult being in the middle," Manchin said. "A 50-50 Senate, it's not an enviable place to be at all."
Last week, the senator announced that he won't be running for the presidency in 2024 after flirting with a third party bid for months. During his announcement, he declined to endorse Biden or any other candidate, although he did offer praise to Donald Trump's lone GOP rival, former U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley.
"I think Nikki is spot on," Manchin said, regarding Haley's remarks critical of Trump in a speech on Tuesday.
Manchin joined Martin days after announcing his own decision not to seek the presidential nomination in 2024. He spoke of his legacy after 15 years in elective office, and his hesitancy to endorse another 2024 presidential hopeful — at least for now. Below are some of the highlights from that interview.
This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.
On why he isn't planning to run for president
It's hard with the Democratic Party and Republican parties being the businesses that they are in Washington today, and I mean businesses, these are big billion-dollar businesses that have picked their product and pretty much have gone in the direction of choosing who they think that would be their strongest product, if you will. And that's what they're going to go with. And I, I just don't fit in the Democrats' process and they are doing things or the Republican process. I've always been independent minded.
And so I thought about that. And I've been with the No Labels group since 2010, because I think they're a wonderful group. They are trying to always give an opportunity for that middle minded person to have a venue. I've appreciated that they've been working and moving towards putting a unity ticket together. I think that it's trying to give an option, which is good. I just believe right now this timing wasn't right for me and I didn't want to be a spoiler.
On why he won't support President Biden
I think President Biden and his team have to look around them and ask, how did he win in 2020? Look at the rhetoric that was used back then. It's not extreme. Everything that was said and everything he showed people was what he'd done through his experience being in the Senate and then being vice president. And [voters] said, "Yeah, this man is more moderate than most, he's easy to work with. He looks at the facts and makes decisions." That's what he had been known for. And now I think people believe that he has gone too far to the left.
I think [we should be] putting ourselves back in a moderate, centrist position where people feel comfortable — they don't think they're being pushed and being overregulated. They don't think that you have the finger or your thumb on the scale and are moving things too far to the left.
I think about how we deal with how we deal with crime in this country, how we deal with the border, how we deal with the fiscal responsibilities that we have. I think that no one's taking the debt of this nation as seriously as they should. I think the greatest challenge that we have is getting our finances under control. And that means you just can't spend like a drunken sailor.
[Biden's team] keeps playing to the base versus where the voters are going to be. This next election will be decided by moderate, centrist, independent voters. They're not talking to them.
On why he won't support former President Donald Trump
I have said there's no way I could support or vote for Donald Trump. I think it would be very detrimental to our country, and to our world standing. We have enough things in upheaval.
I just thought it was horrendous when a former president could not have condolences to a family that lost a 47-year-old husband, a father and a son in a country that basically just eliminates their opposition. And when former President Trump couldn't even say 'my heart goes out to the Navalny family,' it's wrong. There's nothing right about this. But he keeps very silent and doesn't say a word. It seems like he kind of admires the people that operate and govern that way, such as Putin. It scares the bejesus out of me.
I would consider anyone that truly puts their country before themselves and wants to bring people together. But you when you start denigrating and villainizing other people. And when hatred and revenge is going to be basically your mode of operation. That's not right. There's nothing normal about that.
On the legacy of his last term in Congress
It's a shame to go out and the 118th Congress will go down as absolutely the least productive Congress in the history of the United States of America. That's a sad scenario. Only 39 bills have been passed so far. We usually pass an average of about 523 bills every two years.
The 117th Congress was one of the most productive and one of the most monumental 118th will be the worst. And that's a shame.
I have been very adamantly supportive of trying to give every American a chance to have a quality of life, no matter what the race to matter what their religion, no matter what their sexual preferences. But when you try to normalize, those are on the extremes which might be on a different path or taking in life, that makes it hard. When [the government] tries to push that into the mainstream, people reject it. And that's not the government's role. And I've said this all my life. I never have believed the government would be my provider. Government was my partner, whether it be local, municipalities, local, county, local and a state government. They were not my provider, nor did I expect them to be. But I hope [government] had the compassion and the moral values of helping those who couldn't help themselves. That's basically who I am and what I've always tried to do and what I always will do.
The audio version of this interview was produced by Kaity Kline and edited by Mohamad ElBardicy. The digital version was edited by Jacob Conard.
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Transcript
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Senator Joe Manchin, the West Virginia Democrat, has often made news by announcing what he isn't going to do. Over the course of the Biden presidency, Manchin withheld his support for legislation that was central to the president's agenda - federal voting rights, climate change, the social safety net, some tax reform. And now Manchin has made news once again with the announcement that he will not seek the presidency this fall in a contemplated third-party run. We wanted to hear more about this, so Senator Manchin is on the line with us now. Good morning, Senator. Thank you for joining us.
JOE MANCHIN: Good morning, Michel. How are you?
MARTIN: I'm good. So was there some single factor that made the decision for you about the presidential run?
MANCHIN: Not a single factor, there was a combination of factors. I've tried - I looked at it and we've tried everything to see. And I just don't fit in the Democrat process, the way they are doing things, or the Republican process. I've always been independent-minded, and so I thought about that. I just believed, right now, this timing wasn't right for me, and I didn't want to be a spoiler. I just didn't want to be a situation to where I've - they attribute me taking votes or handicapping one side or the other.
MARTIN: So you just said, and you've said before, you are not interested in being a spoiler. And that does tend to be the history of third-party candidates, right? So what role do you envision for yourself?
MANCHIN: I would speak out to the middle. I mean, for the middle that feels they don't have a voice, if I can be a voice, I can tell you it's difficult being in the middle. When there is a 50-50 Senate in the last Congress, 117th Congress, it's not an enviable place to be. Everybody says, oh, you have so much power. What you have is a lot of responsibilities and trying to look at something and balance it out. That means if the Democrats are in control, in majority, that means sets the agenda, that doesn't mean everything's right. That means that you cannot just ostracize your Republican colleagues on the other side and, oh, we don't need your input. So I made sure that I was always trying to balance out and working with a bipartisan, like-minded group.
MARTIN: So you've said that you are not ready to endorse the current president, Mr. Biden, for reelection. You've said that you're concerned about progressives pushing him too far to the left. So what is the...
MANCHIN: Correct.
MARTIN: What is your plan here, is it to - are you looking for some specific commitment, some specific template that you're looking for before you're willing to endorse him?
MANCHIN: I think what President Biden has to look at, and his team around him, how did he win in 2020? Look at the rhetoric that was used back then - I'm not extreme, I'm not against production of energy. We need production of energy. We have a balance to be found. I think people believe that he has been - gone too far to the left because of people around him. So...
MARTIN: What do you believe?
MANCHIN: I do. I've said that. I've told him that.
MARTIN: Anything other than energy policy? Is energy policy your main source of difference or other things?
MANCHIN: Well, I think energy policy. I think, basically, intrusion in people's lives. I think that, you know, changing positions on - you know, we could have codified Roe v. Wade, we could have codified Roe v. Wade. And basically, it was 50 years of precedented law. I'm pro-life, but it wasn't pro-life enough. It wasn't pro-choice enough. But it was something that we learned to live with for 50 years. And they wouldn't go back to that because they wanted more, and things of that sort. And I think putting ourselves back in a moderate, centrist position where people feel comfortable, they don't think they're being pushed and being overregulated and moving things too far to the left - and the other side talks a good game, but they're not doing anything when they were in control.
MARTIN: Let's talk about the other side. Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley has spoken of the dangers of what she calls a political herd mentality on the right. And her argument is that extremists have taken over the Republican Party, mainly because they're so in the sway of former President Trump. Do you agree with her?
MANCHIN: I think Nikki is spot on. I think she's been calling it out as it absolutely is. I watched it up close and personal. And when you think about the border, the crisis of the border is the greatest threat we face right now. And I have said that. Back in September, they were trying to move - Chuck Schumer and the Democrat leadership was trying to move the aid bill for Ukraine, which I'm totally in support of. I think we must support Ukraine. So he was trying to move that bill. And my Republican friend says, we're not talking or moving any bill until we take care of the border, which I agree with them 100%. So they start working on a bill. I say, OK, you got what we all wanted. We got to secure our border, and now we can put them both together.
They - on one day, they were still very supportive and happy about it. Donald Trump comes out and speaks about the bill, and then they all change. And I said, how can anyone cower to someone knowing that the facts aren't there to support him, knowing that basically this is a political move? And he openly said, I think we'll take care of that when I get elected. So how do you answer your people back home? Why would you want to be here if you can't have your voice represent your people?
MARTIN: So given all that, if the choice is between President Biden and President Trump, what are you going to do?
MANCHIN: Well, let's just see. I think it's too early to call that one. There's an awful lot going on, a lot can happen between now and then. I'm hoping - what I have said is there's no way I could support or vote for Donald Trump.
MARTIN: OK.
MANCHIN: I think it would be very detrimental to our country and mostly to the world standing that we have and throw things in an upheaval. Vladimir Putin understands the strength of NATO more than Donald Trump. Vladimir Putin has done everything he can to destroy NATO and break it up. And when we added two new countries to it, it just went through him like a knife. And if they think that he's going to stop if he's successful in Ukraine, he'll move on. And then we really are to where we're obligated to be in there and fight and put our American men and women's lives in danger.
When former President Trump couldn't even say my heart goes out to the Navalny family, it's wrong, there's nothing right about this, but he keeps very silent and doesn't say a word and seems like he kind of admires the people that operate and govern that way, such as Putin, it scares the bejesus out of me.
MARTIN: What about Nikki Haley? Would you consider supporting a Haley candidacy?
MANCHIN: Well, let's just see what's out there. I would consider anyone that truly puts their country before themselves and wants to bring people together. But when you start denigrating and villainizing other people and hatred and revenge is going to be, basically, your mode of operation, that's not right. There's nothing normal about that. So I'm looking. And hopefully, the Joe Biden that I know, the Joe Biden that I've known for a long time, will come back. Let's see what we can do there. So we're looking at so many different things. There's a lot of variations. There's other people out there. No Labels might put a team together. That's a group that I've been with since they began. I still believe in that. And there's just an awful lot happening, so let's just see what happens.
MARTIN: An issue that's been dogging President Biden is his age. Do you think the president is up to the job?
MANCHIN: So I don't look at age. I look at, basically, the person - that's person by person. And with Joe Biden, every time I've been with him, we've talked, I've had no problem whatsoever. And I never walked away thinking, oh, he's not with it, he's out of it. I never had that at all. He's always been right on top. He'll say, I'll check on this, let me tell you why I didn't do this, and all that. But I can see on TV it comes across a little differently than that. And the only thing I can tell you is from my experience. I do not see that as my concern.
MARTIN: That is Senator Joe Manchin. He's a Democrat of West Virginia. Senator Manchin, thank you so much for talking with us. I do hope we'll talk again.
MANCHIN: Well, we will, Michel, I'm sure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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