South Dakota GOP Sen. Mike Rounds discusses military spending plan

Transcript

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

The House has passed a measure funding the U.S. military. That is normally a bipartisan measure. But the Republican majority added amendments, backed by Republicans alone, banning transgender health care funding and reimbursements for travel for abortions. National security adviser, Jake Sullivan, told CNN that President Biden would not sign this.

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JAKE SULLIVAN: What you've seen from an extreme group of Republicans is to put forward a set of amendments that try to mix domestic social debates with the needs - the security needs of our nation.

INSKEEP: But before this measure reaches Biden's desk, it is considered before the U.S. Senate, where Democrats set the agenda. Although Republicans have a lot of power. And we've called one of those Republicans, Mike Rounds of South Dakota. Senator, good morning.

MIKE ROUNDS: Hey, good morning. I appreciate the opportunity to visit with you this morning.

INSKEEP: Is this defense bill the right forum for people to argue over abortion and trans people?

ROUNDS: Well, this is an opportunity to discuss with a bill that passes every single year, at least for the last 63 years. And it talks about policies that involve the Department of Defense. When President Biden authorized the use of federal funds to allow people to transfer from one state to another to have an abortion, he brings that into play. And I'm quite certain he knew he was doing it when he did it. And so it becomes an item of discussion. So, yeah, anytime you're talking about Department of Defense policies, you're going to have the opportunity to discuss those types of very important issues that the nation follows.

INSKEEP: I guess we should remind people there have been bans on using federal funds for abortion for a long time. They've been voted on that way by people in both parties for decades. And you're saying that Biden moved the goal posts in some way by saying the federal government would not pay for abortions but would allow people to travel for an abortion if they need to because it's been banned in their state. You're saying that's a legitimate part of a defense bill?

ROUNDS: Not so much that they can travel, but rather that it would be paid for by the federal government. And under the Hyde Amendment, which has been there for years, there is a prohibition against using federal funds for providing abortions. Now, the president will say, I'm not providing them. I'm just providing them transportation costs and so forth and time off to do an abortion. But that's the reason why this discussion is going on in the first place. But in the meantime, you've got a House authorization. And this is not an appropriation. This is an authorization bill.

INSKEEP: Right.

ROUNDS: The Senate is in the middle of creating our own bill, which tries to address some of the same issues but probably on a more bipartisan basis. And in order for this to go into law, it will have to be done in a bipartisan basis, focusing on the military and our need to defend our country. A little bit of common sense will go a long way as we discuss these issues for the next three, four months.

INSKEEP: OK. I'm hearing your prediction that this bill is going to pass. It gets through the Senate. Then they work out the differences between the House and the Senate. There is this...

ROUNDS: Yeah.

INSKEEP: ...Transgender health care measure in here, though. Why do you think it is, Senator, that transgender issues have animated so many prominent voices in your party?

ROUNDS: Let me just share with you the frustration and the reason why I talk about a little bit of common sense. This last year, or this last week, CQ Brown - he is the nominee to become the the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs and a guy that I want to support - I had to ask him a question about a young lady who was in the South Dakota National Guard, 18 years old, going to boot camp, finds herself between two men in open-bay sleeping quarters. They are changing from male to female, where the chemical process has begun - no surgeries. How do you go back to her parents and say that this is appropriate?

INSKEEP: Do you think that those kinds of things can be worked out in a bipartisan basis, as you just suggested the abortion matter could be?

ROUNDS: I think we can. And, look, the bottom line is you have folks that are transgender, but they are also someone's child. So, number one, we want to talk about how we treat everybody. And we try to say that we want everybody to feel welcome in the military. But we've also got to take a look at making sure that everybody is comfortable with the conditions they find themselves in.

INSKEEP: Just a few seconds left, Senator, but let me ask about funding for Ukraine. There is funding for Ukraine in this defense bill, as I understand it. But Speaker McCarthy and some of his caucus have continued to express skepticism about going too far. Do you think that Ukraine will continue to get all the support it needs from the United States?

ROUNDS: I think what you found in the votes in the House and clearly the votes in the Senate - strongly support continued support for Ukraine and their fight against an absolutely illegal attack by Russia. I think you're going to find very strong, very bipartisan support for moving forward with continued support for Ukraine. Remember, we're providing materials. None of our young men and women are in harm's way, and we want to keep it that way. But we clearly want Ukraine to be victorious in this battle.

INSKEEP: Republican Senator Mike Rounds of South Dakota. Thanks, as always.

ROUNDS: Thank you, sir. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.