There's no way to prepare for the Tyre Nichols video, a Memphis pastor says

Transcript

A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:

Later today, authorities in Memphis, Tenn., say they'll release the video of a traffic stop that preceded the beating death of Tyre Nichols. Five former police officers - all of them, like Nichols, are Black - have been charged with second-degree murder, aggravated assault and aggravated kidnapping. Here's Memphis Police Chief Cerelyn Davis.

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CERELYN DAVIS: This is a failing of basic humanity toward another individual. This incident was heinous, reckless and inhumane.

MARTÍNEZ: Pastor Earle Fisher is an advocate for police reform and the pastor at Abyssinian Missionary Baptist Church in Memphis. Pastor, how are you and faith leaders like yourself helping to prepare the community for the release of this video this evening?

EARLE FISHER: Well, first, thank you for having me. Of course, we are prayerful and trying to do our best to keep everybody informed on some of the particulars of the developments. We've been of the mindset that the way that things have developed with the police officers already being fired, not to mention already being charged, might do some of the work of calming things and making sure that cooler heads prevail. But I don't think there's anything that we could do to prepare the community for what people might witness later this evening.

MARTÍNEZ: So it was actually better, then, that the charges came down before the video was released.

FISHER: Yeah, I believe that. There's been a couple of meetings that we had with the district attorney. I was with a group of activists. We had a meeting with them. I was with a group of clergy. We had a meeting with them. And I think collectively we felt like that was a better sequence of events.

I think most of the time when there are significant and substantial uprisings, it is the byproduct of delayed or denied justice. And this is not to suggest that somehow we are at a state of justice right now. I think these officers being charged is just step one. And true justice would mean that Tyre Nichols would still be here. So, of course, as a pastor, our heart and prayer is with the family. They had a vigil last night. I got a chance to speak again to his parents and his family members. And so that's where our focus is.

But we're definitely bracing ourselves. And to be honest, I'm not sure how much the national media presence is kind of, like, stoking some of the fire of anxieties. But I also understand that this is connected to a broader system and structure of policing and things that are impacting people all over the country. So we've been involved in several different efforts over the last several years trying to change these conditions so that things like this would not happen. And as much as I think people are beginning to applaud and salute some of the city officials, especially like the mayor's office and the chief of police, I think it's also important to know that they have had a hand in the conditions that have created this particular incident.

So, for instance, they launched this SCORPION unit, which is a specialized unit that all of these officers were involved in in the fall of 2021. And in less than a year and a half, you already have one dead body. And we don't know if there's others out there, because I don't think anybody would suggest that this was these officers' first dance at the rodeo. And having all of them only be employed within the last five years - that suggests to me that somebody should have been responsible for their supervision and oversight. I'm clear that they shouldn't have had the level of autonomy and independence to do something as heinous as this. So I'd like to see people press the mayor and the police chief a little bit more on how things got to this level.

MARTÍNEZ: Pastor, for years, diversifying police departments was offered as a solution to police brutality. So what does five Black officers charged with murdering a Black man do to that idea?

FISHER: Well, I think James Forman, in his book "Locking Up Our Own," talked about some of the developments in D.C. several decades ago where people were operating under that same premonition. And I think that Attorney Crump is spot on and others who have said, when you look at this, it's not ever really about the demographics or the ethnicity and the racial makeup of the officer, it's about the demographics, the ethnicity and the racial makeup of the person who is being policed. And when it's been Black people, it doesn't matter whether the officers are white or Black, we are still prone to disproportionate and egregious brutality.

MARTÍNEZ: As a longtime activist yourself, Pastor, have you seen any progress, anything that makes you hopeful?

FISHER: Man, I always find hope in the courage, the creativity and the consciousness of, you know, everyday people and citizens who are showing tremendous poise and passion, and protesting and other community efforts around the city of Memphis and the county of Shelby and all around the country. I think that there are some beautiful things that are emerging that I find hope in. And if I would, you know, try to draw some concrete hope from this particular moment, you know, through some of the political organizing and voter advocacy work of groups like UPtheVote901 and other community partners, we've been able to impact this past election where we now have a much more progressive district attorney.

I am pretty confident that if the previous district attorney was still in office, we would not be having the conversation that we're having right now because there were, like, several police-involved shootings in her tenure, and there was not one indictment. And so there are things that I do find hope in, but I'm not sure that my hope is built in a system and a structure that needs so much substantial reform and change. And there are so many people who are in positions of leadership that seem resistant to that change.

MARTÍNEZ: You know, back to your point about the national media being in Memphis, maybe stoking things, you know, I'd watch television all week, and I'd see the scroll that would say, Memphis on edge. I don't know what's going to happen tonight, Pastor, but I mean, when you see that all the time, 24/7, do you think that does really maybe escalate emotions more than it should?

FISHER: Yeah, I think there's definitely the potential. But at the same time, I understand the need for people wanting to be, you know, at the forefront of, you know, breaking news and the story and things of that nature. And this is definitely a significant and substantial development. And again, not just insofar as things are here on the ground in Memphis, but as people are bracing themselves for protests all around the country, as was the case with George Floyd. I think that ultimately helped us advance some of the conversation and some of the initiatives, even though we still haven't passed, like, the George Floyd Act, right?

MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.

FISHER: But this does provide us an opportunity to advance the conversation in ways that I think are helpful.

MARTÍNEZ: Pastor, we got about 30 seconds. When this video finally hits the internet, hits the airwaves, and we've been told that it's brutal, what do you hope to see and hear from your community in Memphis after this video airs?

FISHER: I don't know if I'm establishing any hopes of that regard. I think I'm just prayerful that cooler heads will prevail and above all, that God's will will be done. And I know I've seen far too much Black death as a spectacle. And I'm not excited about trying to view another video of a Black man being killed by law enforcement.

MARTÍNEZ: That's Memphis Pastor Earle Fisher. Pastor, thank you very much for your time.

FISHER: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.