According to historians Ed Ayers (@edward_l_ayers) and Brian Balogh (@historyfellow), President-elect Donald Trump would not be the first U.S. president to have an unlikely friendship with a controversial world power like Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Ayers and Balogh are co-hosts of the public radio show and podcast BackStory, which is produced at the Virginia Foundation for the Humanities. They speak with Here & Now‘s Peter O’Dowd about a few other presidents’ unlikely friendships, as well as presidential transitions, like the change of power from President Barack Obama to President-elect Trump.

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