Trump is distancing himself from Project 2025, but some in his circle have ties to it

Transcript

SCOTT DETROW, HOST:

Former President Donald Trump and his campaign are working hard to disavow ties to Project 2025, the sweeping conservative plan led by The Heritage Foundation that seeks to transform the American government. Trump says he knows nothing about the controversial project or who is behind it, yet its ranks are made up of dozens of allies and former top officials who, in many ways, wrote the plan for him. NPR's Franco Ordoñez is covering the campaign and has this story on why Trump is distancing himself now.

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UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: (Chanting) USA. USA. USA. USA.

FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: At rally after rally, former President Donald Trump whips up his supporters, as he did in Waukesha, Wis., with promises to transform the U.S. government.

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DONALD TRUMP: With you at my side, we will demolish the deep state. We will expel the warmongers from our government. We will drive out the globalists. We will cast out the communists.

ORDOÑEZ: That message is at the heart of Project 2025, the ambitious plans outlined in a 900-page pro-Trump playbook that would expand presidential powers and reshape the government with more loyal federal workers. The plan - a kind of wish list of conservative principles - calls for reducing immigration, slashing federal agencies and restricting abortion.

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KEVIN ROBERTS: We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.

ORDOÑEZ: It was that statement by the head of Heritage, Kevin Roberts, on the conservative podcast "War Room" that set off Democrats who saw it as threatening. They also saw it as a political opportunity.

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PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Project 2025 will destroy America. Look it up.

ORDOÑEZ: Wearing his signature aviators, Biden released a video on social media attacking the project. The campaign followed up with ads and a website tying Trump and Project 2025.

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TARAJI P HENSON: Pay attention. It's not a secret.

ORDOÑEZ: Actress Taraji P. Henson echoed that message even more when she warned about Project 2025 while hosting the BET Awards.

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HENSON: They are attacking our most vulnerable citizens. The Project 2025 plan is not a game. Look it up.

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ORDOÑEZ: Bryan Lanza, who worked on Trump's first transition team, says Heritage is doing the same thing many other think tanks have done, but they've made some mistakes.

BRYAN LANZA: Like, normal transitions are you're translating the work of a candidate's, you know, words and statements during the course of a campaign into policy. Heritage is trying to do the reverse and convince candidates to implement their policies and their considerations.

ORDOÑEZ: All the negative attention led to a strong rebuke from Trump, claiming on social media that he knows nothing about the project or those involved. He called some of the ideas ridiculous.

DANIELLE ALVAREZ: The reality is that Joe Biden has had a really terrible 13 days since President Trump dominated the debate stage.

ORDOÑEZ: Danielle Alvarez, a senior adviser for the Trump campaign, accused Biden of trying to distract from questions about whether he can remain the Democratic nominee. She emphasized that the campaign has been saying for months that these outside groups do not speak for them.

ALVAREZ: And so Democrats are desperate, and they're throwing a Hail Mary, attempting to talk about outside groups as though they're President Trump's policy positions.

ORDOÑEZ: That's true, but those involved with Project 2025 are very much intertwined with Trump world and are likely candidates in a future administration, like Paul Dans. He leads the project at Heritage and served in the first Trump administration. When I spoke to him last year, he emphasized that the plans were for any conservative candidate.

PAUL DANS: We're candidate-agnostic. This is for the service of any standard-bearer, but we're not reality-agnostic.

ORDOÑEZ: Dans described Trump as the best embodiment of their movement.

Franco Ordoñez, NPR News. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.