Trump tries to claim that a picture of thousands of Harris supporters was faked

Transcript

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

One of the things being litigated in this presidential campaign is whether the crowds at rallies are real.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: So Michigan, I ask you, are you ready to make your voices heard?

(CHEERING)

SHAPIRO: That was the scene in a Detroit aircraft hangar last week after Vice President Kamala Harris and her running mate, Governor Tim Walz, stepped off Air Force Two and were greeted by thousands of very real supporters. But former President Donald Trump and his supporters have tried to claim that a photo of the real crowd was fake. NPR's Jude Joffe-Block is here to explain why this matters. Hey there.

JUDE JOFFE-BLOCK, BYLINE: Hi.

SHAPIRO: Describe this photo and what Trump said about it.

JOFFE-BLOCK: Yeah. So the photo shows a crowd waving signs in front of the vice president's plane. And it's been circulating on social media since last week. It was taken by a Harris campaign staffer. And it's true that the image looks a little unusual due to the lighting, but the crowd it shows is consistent with video footage, other photos from the event and NPR correspondent Tamara Keith's account.

Yet Trump supporters on social media for days have been claiming the photo was made by generative artificial intelligence to make it appear like more people were at the rally. And then on Sunday, Trump echoed those claims on his own post, even going so far to claim that there was no real crowd at all waiting for the plane, which is clearly untrue.

SHAPIRO: Well, what do experts who study AI images say about this photo and the larger implications of these kinds of claims, that real images are deepfakes?

JOFFE-BLOCK: Yeah. I talked to Hany Farid at UC Berkeley. He specializes in image forensics. And when he first saw the image online, he also thought it was a bit strange looking. So he ran through - it through two models to test whether there were any platforms consistent with - any patterns - I'm sorry - consistent with generative AI or manipulation. And he found no evidence of that. He told me he's worried about the bigger implications of how people are responding to the existence of this technology and how social media amplifies it.

HANY FARID: This is an example where just the mere existence of deepfakes and generative AI allows people to deny reality. You don't like the fact that Harris-Walz had such a big crowd? No problem. Photos are fake. Videos are fake. Everything's fake.

JOFFE-BLOCK: And scholars who study deepfakes coined a phrase a few years ago about this exact phenomenon. They call it the liar's dividend.

SHAPIRO: Well, how does this example fit with what we've seen more broadly about how conspiracy theories tied to the election are spreading?

JOFFE-BLOCK: So one thing we know about misinformation is that people are especially willing to accept false information when it fits into their worldview. And the Harris-Walz campaign has been enjoying some momentum and larger rallies, so for those who support Trump, there's an appetite for an alternative explanation of what's going on. And that's one reason the false AI claims about the Harris rally photos were able to take off.

And to be clear, while it's not the same as claiming real images are fake, the Harris campaign trolled Trump with social media images of empty seats at his Georgia rally earlier this month. But those images were from before the rally started, when seats were still filling up. And while they might be trolling, those images could create an impression that attendance at Trump's event was lower than it actually was.

SHAPIRO: That's NPR's Jude Joffe-Block. Thank you.

JOFFE-BLOCK: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.