Transcript
SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
Two Democratic U.S. senators are calling for a special counsel investigation into the conduct of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. They say Justice Thomas and his lawyers have not fully answered ethics and tax questions about gifts and loans he received from wealthy GOP donors. Republicans argue that turning to the Justice Department amounts to partisan revenge on a court with a conservative majority.
I spoke with one of two Democrats calling for the investigation, Oregon's Ron Wyden. Senator Wyden, thank you for making time.
RON WYDEN: Thanks for having me, Sacha.
PFEIFFER: You know, reports and investigations about the ethics of Clarence Thomas taking gifts from wealthy people have been public for more than a year. Why are you calling for a special counsel investigation now?
WYDEN: We want to make sure the truth gets out. And the heart of our request for a special counsel is a forgiven loan to Justice Thomas of more than a quarter million dollars to buy a 40-foot luxury motor coach. Our investigators at the Finance Committee found that Justice Thomas never repaid the principal on the loan, only interest. And the fella who gave him the money just stopped collecting payments altogether. This looks like the textbook definition of a forgiven loan.
Thomas is legally required to report that as income on his ethics forms and his taxes. And if this had been John Q. Public - if John Q. Public had done what it appears Justice Thomas did, he'd be facing a whole lot of hurt.
PFEIFFER: Thomas' attorney has said that these kinds of gifts and forgiven loans fall under a disclosure exemption. It's a personal hospitality exemption. In other words, he didn't have to disclose them, is their argument. You - I imagine you disagree with that?
WYDEN: I do. The short story is Thomas is required to report gifts and loans on his ethics disclosures. It doesn't matter which. For tax purposes, he wouldn't owe taxes on a gift. He would owe taxes on a forgiven loan. This is not a gift. Let me repeat that. That's not a gift. The loan was forgiven. His billionaire benefactors would owe taxes on gifts, like the taxes on yachts and private jets, and we're looking at those as well.
PFEIFFER: Also this week, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the Democratic congresswoman, filed articles of impeachment against Justice Thomas and also Justice Samuel Alito. The impeachment articles allege unchecked corruption. That's the quote. I can also imagine Republicans saying that this is some kind of coordinated attack, maybe meant to divert public attention from the pressure on President Biden not to run again. Is there a connection between those things?
WYDEN: No, and we have been trying to get a response from Thomas' lawyer for months and months. And right now, we feel this is the absolutely essential way in order to get the truth out. I mean, we literally have been working on this for, you know, over a year. Justice Thomas could have cleared the matter up at any point in the last year. And we've just gotten waltzed around by his attorney multiple times. And his suspicious silence is what brought us to the point where we're calling for a special counsel to investigate. That's number one.
Number two, on the impeachment issue, which you touched on, this is obviously a serious matter that deserves investigation. If a special counsel concludes that Justice Thomas broke the law, in my view, that is certainly evidence that would warrant impeachment.
PFEIFFER: That's U.S. Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon. Thank you for your time.
WYDEN: Thank you.
PFEIFFER: We asked the legal team for Justice Thomas for a response to Wyden's allegations. We have not yet heard back. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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