An education law professor on why race should be considered in college applications

Transcript

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Any day now, the U.S. Supreme Court releases its ruling on college admissions. The court cases challenged policies that consider race as a factor in taking in students to Harvard and the University of North Carolina. Dana Thompson Dorsey teaches education law and policy at the University of South Florida in Tampa. And she's on the line. Good morning.

DANA THOMPSON DORSEY: Good morning. How are you?

INSKEEP: I'm OK. Thanks for joining us. Is your starting point that race should be a factor in college admissions?

DORSEY: Yes, I believe race should be a factor in college admissions. We still have a problem in the United States with racism and discrimination and implicit bias. As long as we're not addressing these issues, race will continue to be a problem - or how people perceive race will continue to be a problem in this country.

INSKEEP: And I guess there's the practical question of what's best for the country and also the legal question, which the Supreme Court is supposed to address, of how the law applies here. But let's look at the basic argument of the plaintiffs, that the universities are judging people too much on race. And of course, there are many categories of people. This is not a Black-white question. In fact, the argument, a big part of the argument, is that Asian Americans have been held back more than anyone. They've been disproportionately denied in an effort at racial balance. Do you see their point of view at all?

DORSEY: Yes, I do see their point of view. They have a problem with checking the box and not being of major consideration. And in terms of Harvard, there is a serious problem they have with legacies. That is students who are accepted, which I believe is about 40% of the freshman class each year - who are accepted into Harvard because their parent attended or because they have a parent who works at Harvard, or even athletes. And race is considered as a factor in that as well.

But Asian students, who argue that they should be admitted on their merit, not on race, and others should not be admitted based on race. But Asians are saying, I have, you know - or we have higher GPAs and SAT scores, or even if it's a graduate program, LSAT or MCAT, or GRE scores. So we should be admitted based on those factors. And if everyone did not have to check a box, we would be admitted.

Now, I understand the argument they are making. And the argument they're making is actually what many of us who are proponents of affirmative action make, that race has been a factor when it is actually benefiting and has typically benefited white and oftentimes wealthy Americans. And so I completely understand their point. But because we still have this issue of race and racism and discrimination in our country, that needs to be considered, as well as how we define meritocracy.

INSKEEP: I guess we should mention, with the legacy system, as I understand it, you don't automatically get into a place like Harvard because your parent went there. But you get a point, you get a little advantage, potentially. And so that does change the results. It's remarkable to see this news, though. This spring, Harvard revealed that almost 30% of admitted applicants are Asian American. They've allowed the number of Asians coming in to rise dramatically. In the context of this lawsuit, in a way, is that an admission they were holding Asians back in the past?

DORSEY: Yes, it is. In the past, if they have been admitting, and purposely admitting, less Asian students and then, obviously, this lawsuit comes about - there is a lot of attention now being paid to Harvard, but in a negative way - they would then shift their, I guess, review of Asian students' admissions packets and admit more students, and I guess rightfully so if you're basing it solely on merit. But that just goes to show you how universities' policies can shift based on how it's going to benefit them, not necessarily the student or the educational benefit of racial or ethnic diversity.

INSKEEP: I want to quickly ask one other question here. In multiple cases, the Supreme Court has held that affirmative action is necessary for a time because of past discrimination. But their general idea is we should reach a point in society where it's not necessary. Ideally, we would not judge people on race at all is their point of view. In the 30 seconds or so that we have, do you accept that basic idea that affirmative action should be temporary, that it should end sometime?

DORSEY: I do. I do agree with that, but so should racism, so should discrimination, so should the assumption that people who are admitted into institutions like Harvard or UNC Chapel Hill who are underrepresented minorities are not qualified, when they are very much qualified but are oftentimes seen or appear to be not as qualified because of their race. And that they're somehow getting preferential treatment, but for hundreds of years, white people have gotten preferential treatment when Black and brown people weren't even allowed to get an education, K-12 education, let alone a higher-ed education.

INSKEEP: Weren't even let in the door at one point. Dana Thompson Dorsey, thanks so much for your insights, really appreciate it.

DORSEY: Thank you for having me. Have a good day.

INSKEEP: She's an associate professor of educational leadership at the University of South Florida in Tampa. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.